Bonus Dad Bonus Daughter
Welcome to "Bonus Dad, Bonus Daughter," a heartwarming and insightful podcast celebrating the unique bond between a stepfather Davey, and his stepdaughter Hannah.
Join them as they explore the joys, challenges, and everyday moments that make this relationship special.
Each episode they take a topic and discuss the differences, similarities and the effect each one had one them
Featuring candid conversations, personal stories, and many laughs
Whether you're a step-parent, stepchild, or simply interested in family dynamics, "Bonus Dad, Bonus Daughter" offers a fresh perspective on love, family, and the bonds that unite us.
Bonus Dad Bonus Daughter
Love's Many Faces and the Science of Romance
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This episode explores the various dimensions and complexities of love, from its psychological and biological underpinnings to cultural differences in romantic relationships. We discuss attachment theories, the impacts of love addiction, and the modern dating landscape, inviting listeners to reflect on their own experiences and the significance of self-love in fostering healthy connections.
• Introduction to different types of love
• Exploring the science of love and the hormones involved
• Understanding attachment theories and their impact on relationships
• Discussing love addiction and its characteristics
• Cultural differences in perceptions and expressions of love
• Navigating the modern dating landscape and challenges
• Celebrating the importance of self-love in relationships
Hello and welcome to Bonus Dad. Bonus Daughter a special father-daughter podcast with me Hannah and me, davy, where we discuss our differences, similarities, share a few laughs and stories. Within our ever-changing and complex world, Each week we will discuss a topic from our own point of view and influences throughout the decades or you could choose one by contacting us via email, instagram, facebook or TikTok links in bio.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to another very special, lovely podcast episode. Lovely, do you see what I did there? I did see what you did there, yeah, yeah we actually tried to record a valentine's one last year, didn't we? It was a bit shit it was more than a bit, so it never aired.
Speaker 1:It was more than a bit shit. It was absolutely diabolical. I'd binned it off after like five minutes like this, thought this is just awful.
Speaker 2:Father decided to do the history of Valentine's, which I don't know if he's hitting it this time, are you no? Oh good, you absolutely axed it completely. Well, you're in for a treat because that was boring as fuck. So we're going to do oh, I just swore again, oh, hannah, again, oh hannah. We're literally like what, five minutes in? Yeah, that's fine, I can do bleeping, bleeping, bleeping, bleeping.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, this episode's all about love, love. Barry white, barry white, barry white, he's. He's the maestro of love, isn't he?
Speaker 1:well, yes, so that's romantic love yeah, there are several different types of love there are yeah, yeah, I didn't go down the whole history of, because I you just literally, when I do those types of, I just look across at you and you just glaze, I just groan and I glaze over. You just glaze over and you don't really listen, which I imagine our listeners would also do yeah probably, probably. So, yeah, I looked at. Well, yeah, because you haven't actually seen this yet, have you?
Speaker 2:I have not. I'm looking at this completely blind, actually, about what this is all about. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So first of all shall we just kind of define oh Ashley, have we got any life?
Speaker 2:updates. What is love, baby? Don't hurt me. Have we got any life updates? I've got a pretty big one, to be fair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have haven't you Before we delve into the whole.
Speaker 2:Delve into love.
Speaker 1:What's going on in your life, Hannah?
Speaker 2:I am going, so for work. I'm traveling to what may, what some people may say, the destruction of love, a place where love people go to love is different there. I don't know where I'm going with this. Basically, I'm going to vegas I'm going to vegas for work, which is an incredible opportunity that has fallen upon my lap. But I hear there's a lot of chapels that you can go and just get married without you know prior. Yeah, yeah drive-in chapels.
Speaker 2:Drive-in chapels, drive-in chapels and it's a lot of places where people go for their stag and hendoos, for that last night of freedom, I suppose.
Speaker 1:Yeah so.
Speaker 2:I think Vegas thinks of love differently to a lot of the rest of the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's where I was going with that. I forgot about all the little chapels of love because you had, like, the drive-in chapels.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I went completely barking up the wrong tree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you get married by Elvis and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I'm already married, so presumably I can't get married in Vegas if that ever come to it, but I think Vegas is the our Gretna Green, isn't it? Yes, yes, but a little bit more flamboyant yeah, they're a little bit more saucy about it. They give it a bit more sparkle, yeah, a little bit more convenient pizzazz, pizzazz, pizzazz. So I'm going to Vegas, which is pretty cool. So the next time we record, I'm going to be jet lagged as fuck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you are.
Speaker 2:I'm going to come into the studio shell of a woman after being in Vegas for a week for work. So yeah, I'm pretty, are you?
Speaker 1:going to get a chance to have a little look around Vegas, or is it going to be one of these trips where you get there, you go to the conference, you do the thing and then that's it, you leave?
Speaker 2:Well, now let me tell you something.
Speaker 1:Oh, go on then, I'm all ears.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we're going to Vegas and it is for a conference, so I'm going there and that is a three-day thing. I am there from the Sunday to the Thursday. The event is Monday, tuesday, wednesday and I fly back on the Thursday. The event is Monday, tuesday, wednesday. Okay, and I fly back on the Thursday. But what's weird to me is time zone difference from the UK to Las Vegas is eight hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah so there are eight hours behind us, which means that when I leave here on Sunday at 12 noon, I arrive there two o'clock their time, so actually my flight is technically two hours and 40 minutes yeah.
Speaker 1:In time yeah.
Speaker 2:Zones. So you're going to minutes, yeah, in time, yeah, zones, um. So on the way back? Well, yeah, but I'm gonna sleep on the plane. That's my, that's my idea, but on the way back. So I leave thursday and come home friday it's very weird, so I I say I would jump forward, yeah, yeah and so that's, I think it's going to be the worse of the legs than worse the worse.
Speaker 2:Better english yeah, it's. It's going to be the the least favorable leg of, sorry, of the journey. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So, yeah, the conference, um, yeah, I am at a conference, and then, um, there is talk about going to the sphere. Have you heard of the sphere? Yeah, I think so Is project stuff on it, oh right, and in it.
Speaker 1:So I thought it might have been like a venue, it is a venue. A venue, yeah.
Speaker 2:It is a venue, so it's basically it's very similar to a planetarium. Oh, okay, but instead of it being, I guess, a planetarium is 180. This would be almost 360, apart from the bit that you're sitting on. Yeah so it'd be a bit more immersive. Right, I'm trying to say so yeah, there's talking about going to the Sphere, which is cool. It also happens to be Super Bowl weekend, so when we arrive, yeah, so it would be quite cool to catch. You know some local Super Bowl?
Speaker 1:Yes, I don't understand the rules of that game.
Speaker 2:What American football yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean I mean I mean I know we have some listeners in America, and you know my family as well. I mean I know we have some listeners in. America and my family as well, and I know American football is a big thing. Yeah, mitchell is a big fan. I've got a couple of people I work with who are also big fans, but it's kind of like rugby. No you've just said the curse word, not football, but also they don't kick the ball, they hold it.
Speaker 2:They do kick the ball.
Speaker 1:It's called a field goal, yeah, but then also they're not even playing. Half the time, they're all standing around talking. It's not even a game it's.
Speaker 2:The game is less on physical ability and right. Well, no, there is a lot of physical ability, but it's a lot. It's a bit more strategy based than football.
Speaker 1:They're all armoured up as well, aren't they?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, because it's a dangerous game.
Speaker 1:I'd refer to rugby. Pushy, pushy, yeah, look at rugby. Rugby's vicious Rugby is quite vicious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't understand rugby. I understand American football better than I understand rugby.
Speaker 1:Another one is Aussie rules.
Speaker 2:Aussie rules.
Speaker 1:Aussie rules what do Well, there's Aussie rules, isn't there Aussie rules football, which is very similar, I think it's also even more violent.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, australian football is crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:That's just another kettle of fish.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so anyway enjoy.
Speaker 2:Vegas yeah, I am, I'm going to enjoy it. I'm not going to enjoy the traveling part, but I think being there is going to be quite cool it. It's weird it's a town in the middle of the desert built on casinos, I mean town probably doesn't quite do it justice, but yes, you're right, it's in the middle of the Nevada desert.
Speaker 1:Yeah, built on mafia money.
Speaker 2:So they say, yeah, I am hoping to, maybe because we're staying in a casino I don't want to say exactly where I'm staying on air.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Because I think this might air before we go. But yeah, we're staying in one of the casinos, which is, you know, there's lots of them.
Speaker 1:Are you going to play?
Speaker 2:blackjack. Well, I need to be taught. Are you going to?
Speaker 1:play the slots.
Speaker 2:I need to be taught how to slot and also how to blackjack. Well, you know how to play poker. Well, I do, but I'm not playing poker in Vegas. I'd lose so bad. I'm hoping to play a little bit of roulette.
Speaker 2:That's my I want to play roulette because at least I know six million on black yeah, it's like it's just like where I know where I stand with that. Like it's pretty easy, like you literally just put it on a number and you're good, or you can put it across four numbers or you can do the first third halves black red, yeah. So I feel like it's just like easier to understand genuinely. But my colleagues have said they are happy to teach me on uh flight. But one funny thing that my colleague said I'm going with all lads.
Speaker 2:So I'll be the only female going in this particular trip in this little unit that we're taking, which is cool. However, they were all very shocked to learn that I'd never seen the Hangover. Oh okay, Apparently, in order to go to Vegas, I need to watch the Hangover.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, the wolf pack.
Speaker 2:So yesterday night no, no, no, no sorry friday night I watched the hangover, right, what do you think? I mean it's not my thing, because it's not my type of, I'm not massively into comedies, but one thing that suddenly become apparent to me was the whole tiger in the room and the baby in the closet yeah is a lyric in my medicine which is by pretty reckless that I never understood before, and now I understand it because of that movie right, so I assume they're referencing that movie in that song.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so or maybe the other way around, but yeah, yeah, interesting movie sorry for the spoilers, but it's been out a long time, so I don't think it's real spoiler talking about films, have you watched american psycho yet? Yes, I have what do you think? Again like I, I was left with more questions okay than I had so do you think he really did it or do you think it was all in his head? I don't, it's yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you?
Speaker 1:think he really was doing all those murders, or do you think everything was in his head, I mean, and he never did any of it?
Speaker 2:Evidence suggests, because all the apartment was clear and clean and everything, but even everyone looked at him weird, like they covered it up for him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was, yeah, it was a very odd situation and they were like don't ever come back here, sort of thing.
Speaker 1:It's a brilliant film, isn't? It, yeah it left me with way more questions than I had answers. But it really gave that kind of 90s yuppie culture and how yeah, that kind of Wall Street kind of situ.
Speaker 2:I mean the fact that they're all comparing their business cards their business cards yeah, that was basically a dick measuring contest, right, exactly exactly. Business cards yeah, like that was basically a dick measuring contest, right, exactly.
Speaker 1:And how like, how nice the white was and how nice the lettering was, and I think the reference is bone white at one point.
Speaker 2:Bone white, that's right yeah, yeah, yeah, which I was like. Okay, that's like a dick measuring contest. Yeah, I think the the hero of that movie was his assistant, who just tried to get on with her life, reese Witherspoon.
Speaker 1:Reese Witherspoon's in it, isn't she?
Speaker 2:don't think so.
Speaker 1:I mean I just love. I love the scene with Jared Leto where he talks about Huey Lewis and the news and he's putting on the coat and he's just like yeah the music in that movie was really well chosen as well. I thought absolutely brilliant, but you've got to read the book. Read the book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1:Love From murdering onto love. I haven't got any love updates, by the way. My life's been boring the past couple of weeks. Fantastic news, yeah. So let's move on. Let's move on to love. So, yeah, love. So what is love? Baby, don't hurt me.
Speaker 2:How many times are we going to do that throughout this episode? So what is love? You can have, obviously, romantic love, which is the love between you and your significant other partner, wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, fiance bit on the side, I don't know what you want to say your side chick, your side hoe no judgment, by the way, as long as everyone loves everyone.
Speaker 1:Hashtag no judgment here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no judgment, and you've got platonic love, which is one of my favorite loves is the love between friends. Yes, yeah, and you've got platonic love which is one of my favorite loves is is the love between, uh, friends. Yes, yeah, uh, the boundaries in place for that cool self-love uh, sorry, it makes me laugh. I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't love myself, so self-love I think can be taken in two ways.
Speaker 2:I've immediately gotten thought in my head so self-love is obviously appreciating yourself in more ways than one Easy Hannah. I'm just trying to word it in a way that's like you should be looking after yourself, but obviously there's a sexual component to that. So yeah, but it is important to, I think, do appreciate yourself.
Speaker 1:I don't think you can. Well, I say this you can, but I think before you love other people, you should learn to love yourself. I don't think you can't. Well, I say this you can, but I think, before you love other people, you should learn to love yourself.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, not always as simple as it sounds.
Speaker 1:It really isn't. It really isn't.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of confidence comes from your self-love of yourself. Self-love of yourself. This is so difficult to read, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't.
Speaker 2:English today. And then you've actually put unconditional love, which I assume is the love between father child, that sort of exactly unconditional love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but love is when you actually look because, yeah, but let's just just go back a little bit, because we were going to, as we said at the start of this episode, we were going to do an episode on Valentine's Day, but it didn't work. So this was your idea, wasn't it? To say let's do something.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it was my idea.
Speaker 1:I was just like oh yeah, it was my idea, but you wrote it, yeah, I wrote it, but you said, let's do an episode on love rather than do it on Valentine's Day. Because yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:I think love does stretch across a lot of things. One thing you haven't put down here is because I did grow up as an only child. I have step-siblings, but I've also married into siblings, yeah, and I know that. So this is going to sound really strange, but I've got two brothers-in-law. Yeah, brothers-in-law.
Speaker 1:How do you pluralize that Two brothers-in-law.
Speaker 2:Brother-in-laws.
Speaker 1:No, brothers-in-law.
Speaker 2:Brothers-in-law Brothers-in-law and one sister-in-law and the older brother-in-law. He's got a family. He's good Wife to be this year actually. They're getting married. And then I've got a little sister-in-law who's still being looked after by her parents. But, that middle brother. Oh my God, I would give my life for Damien. I honestly would. I don't think I've ever felt like a sibling love. Quite like it. I don't think I've ever felt like a sibling love quite like it.
Speaker 2:I just want to protect him all the time, and I think he just falls in that category of he's old enough that he's out on his own, but he's still young. That I felt like I want to part my wisdom on.
Speaker 1:As an older sister.
Speaker 2:you're an older kind of sister, yeah, which is, I think, quite weird for me because even with my step-siblings I'm the younger sibling and then also growing up mostly an only child. It's quite a weird feeling for me to have and I remember saying to Mitchell one night I was like I would die for David and he's like yeah, that's what love for a sibling is like.
Speaker 1:It is. I still don't quite understand this. The thing is me and my brother, stuart, who I grew up with. We fought all the time. We would always fight and argue, but anyone else said anything to him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely not. In fact, I don't even know if he knows this story. Oh, okay, yeah, story time, story time. So when I was at school, there's five years difference between me and my brother, stuart, oh, yeah, and yeah, I don't even know to this day, because I never told him that this actually happened, but, of course, because my mum was married quite a few times, me and my brother, because I don't have four brothers and sisters.
Speaker 1:Nanny girl times with me and my brother, because I don't have four brothers and sisters. Yeah, they're all, they're all half brothers and sisters. Uh, so we've got different last names, so, uh, yeah, two completely different surnames. Now people didn't know at school because I went to an all boys grammar school that stewart was my younger brother and I was in the fifth year. Now when he would join the first year, he people would get bullied.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I stood there and I watched this group of kids bully. My brother Watched and did nothing. No, I did nothing, I just watched to see how far it went.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And they were pushing him about and whatever. Anyway, they went back in. Then, when my brother moved out of the way and no one could see him, I went in and I sorted those bullies out and, yeah, I kind of got a point of detention for that, did you? But I never told him.
Speaker 2:Was he ever picked on again?
Speaker 1:No, because I didn't want him to think that I was this kind of overbearing brother at school.
Speaker 2:I wanted him to find his own way, yeah.
Speaker 1:But I protected him. It's pretty mature of you to think about at that age, but I protected him without him even knowing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I just said no, he never got bullied again after that.
Speaker 2:Does Uncle Stuart listen to this podcast? I think so. Oh well, I think so. I hope you enjoyed that story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that thing about sibling, sibling, love that yeah, it's kind of like you would protect them no matter what, even if they did something stupid. Yeah, yeah, that's how I feel yeah but how does love differ from? Because? Because love is, it's a big word, isn't it? Yeah, it encompasses a lot.
Speaker 2:So, because it's a, it can be a positive thing, but it can be a negative thing as well it can be, you can fall in love love with the wrong person, and I think that's a natural thing, but also it's how you communicate that for your actions. I think is what speaks louder sometimes.
Speaker 1:And love can be very healthy, but it can also be very unhealthy as well, because you've got attraction. You're attracted to somebody. That is the beginning of love. I'll come on to the science and the psychology of love in a little while. But when you start talking about infatuation and addiction. And addiction, love addiction, then you're starting to cross into a really weird realm.
Speaker 2:And I think attraction also is worth noting here. Attraction can mean to I'm just trying to be inclusive here. Um, attraction can be any gender yeah any sexuality and it's worth, I think, noting here that that's why it differs so much across the board really with people, because, yeah, uh, people have different attractions, different yeah yeah they uh across the way. But yeah, I think attraction can lead down several avenues that maybe you weren't always aware of yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, I know what you're trying to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so because we've got the psychology of love, because love is actually, it takes a feeling, isn't it? But also it's a feeling, but also it's a chemical reaction it is yeah you know, essentially it's it's your, it's your brain. I mean, there's things like uh, oxytocin, dopamine and serotonin.
Speaker 2:Basically make up, make up love and just so you know that love that releases those, those kind of hormones. Are they classes? We'll go with the word chemical. Then there are other things in your life that you can do that release those chemicals. Dopamine, for example, is a very classic one. Dopamine is very high in runners. Adrenaline Endorphins is another chemical that falls into the love category. Serotonin is another one. Basically, things that make you feel happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:In the simplest of terms, yeah, and it's not just an affection between two people or multiple people, if that's what you're into, but it can be through the role of exercise and other things you can do. That's when addiction comes into play is that sometimes your serotonin and your dopamine get a little bit confused, so that's why people become addicted to certain things substances, alcohol, drugs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people with an addictive personality Addictive personality yeah. So, because love does trigger certain specific chemicals in the brain, we've always mentioned three of them the oxytocin, dopamine and serotonin. But oxytocin is kind of that's released during physical touch, hugging and intimacy.
Speaker 2:I love how you made that weirder than it intended to be. We could have just said intimacy, and that would have been fine.
Speaker 1:Instead I just air-quoted and went intimacy, although. Next thing it says strengthen bonds between partners, parents and children. So I'm going to retract the last intimacy partners, parents and children.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to retract the last intimacy. Well, attachment types and attachment styles is very rooted in psychology. When it comes to children and their parents, certain attachment types will lead to kind of almost the makeup of how a child is formed and how a child then creates relationships later down the line in their life. You can have avoidant attachment styles you can have. That's the only one I can think of the name of.
Speaker 1:But there's other ones.
Speaker 2:And certain attachment styles have there's evidence to suggest that the way that a child attaches to someone could kind of make certain symptoms known like autism is a massive one. How a child is attached to their parent at an early stage is a one of the signs that you can see for someone that has autism, adhd, any childhood development disorder as well as always noted in that. And then, of course, you've got attachment styles with your uh, with your partner yeah a lot of people call them love languages.
Speaker 1:These days they do yeah, I know there's a lot of kind of buzzwords around yeah, there is.
Speaker 2:And it's steeped, steeped in psychology quite heavily psychology and a little bit of hearsay, I think, if I'm honest, a lot of people say their love language is is food.
Speaker 2:So it might be if their partner cooks them food and they feel like that or it might be monetary, if, if their partner spends money on them, which again is is fine if that's, if that's what you're into. It can be anything from that, or it can be words. Words of affection is another love language. There's loads out there, but yeah, it's all to do with kind of the psychology behind it and what suits you and what. I guess what love languages complement each other. Yeah, some people like physical touch. Some people don't like being touched at all.
Speaker 1:You know it's one of them things, but it's true. When you hug someone because it isn't when you comfort someone your natural thing is to hug them. Yeah, and it does. A hug does make you feel good, it does release those chemicals into your brain I'm going to just counter that and play death advocate.
Speaker 2:Some people don't know some people don't like touchy touch I, I think when I'm feeling down, sometimes I just want to be left alone. But that's just me, but yeah.
Speaker 1:That comes into personality types as well. I think that does, yeah.
Speaker 2:Whereas a hug can be certainly very beneficial, particularly, I think, between a parent and a child.
Speaker 1:I think physical affection is, they say when a child is first born. It's that skin-to-skin contact, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not only affection and attraction and bonding. That's also to do with immune system building as well. But that's a different matter entirely, but yeah, no, you're right, A hug can make you feel better. I know that I don't always want it I've never been much of a huggy person, I guess but of course you do have. I'm going to be the devil's advocate in this whole thing.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I don't like that. Yeah, yeah. So oxytocin is, of course, the love hormone. You've got dopamine, which is the pleasure hormone, and that increases during attraction and early stages of love and it can create feelings of excitement, motivation and pleasure and it's responsible for that high. That's the high that you get when falling in love. Yeah, that kind of euphoric, kind of I would also say the motivation.
Speaker 2:Uh, just to hit on that and what I mentioned about running or exercise, in general. That's another thing. The chemical that's released and that's why people are motivated and you think cool, why do people run marathons? That's why?
Speaker 1:literally, that's why it's the run is high.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, then you've got serotonin, which is the mood regulator yeah, serotonin is really, uh, very much responsible for your mood generally, but also it can be a factor when it comes down to medical mental disorders such as depression yeah mood disorders like depression is the big one, but anxiety and then you've got also like adhd things like that all comes into that and how, how we're regulated in that terms, and that's why there's lots of medication out there that either boost serotonin or lower it, depending on where you are bipolar is another one that falls into that category and then, of course, you've got endorphins, which is the comfort hormones and, as released in long-term relationships, providing a sense of peace and emotional security you know what gives me endorphins.
Speaker 1:Go on what.
Speaker 2:Gilmore Girls. I've explained this so many times.
Speaker 1:I know Gilmore.
Speaker 2:Girls feels like a hug.
Speaker 1:Is that? See, that's what I mean, See. You immediately said it's like a hug.
Speaker 2:It's like a hug, see.
Speaker 1:Which is weird for me to say yeah. But yes, it is, it's an emotional comfort blanket.
Speaker 2:It's a comfort. Yeah, that blanket around you, it's a weighted blanket.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. Yeah. So because obviously I studied psychology, you studied psychology. I thought we'd look at the chemical side of things with love, that's, the biological side, I would say. So I thought we'd go through the psychological side of love Cognitive, yes, yeah, the cognitive side, let's rock and roll. So we kind of have three stages of falling in love with someone. Okay, now this, particularly when I say, say we're leading towards a marriage, an intimate relationship, yeah, yeah, and not necessarily a polyamorous, monogamous one.
Speaker 2:And and also just just for yeah, so this isn't.
Speaker 1:So I've looked at this from the basis of not like sibling love not like loving a parent.
Speaker 2:This is romantic love.
Speaker 1:This is romantic love. So you have three, and not necessarily in this order. I would say yeah, not necessarily in this order. So you do have three stages. You have lust.
Speaker 2:Driven by sexual attraction and hormones.
Speaker 1:Indeed.
Speaker 2:Testosterone, estrogen, progesterone.
Speaker 1:So you see someone and you just want them.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Want them.
Speaker 2:Okay, now you've made it weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then of course you have the attraction. So, and that's when the dopamine and serotonin. The butterflies the excitement, yeah, which can lead to obsession, yeah, and emotional intensity, yes, yeah. And then you have the attachment Oxytocin, which attachment, oxytocin, which is oxytocin. And then the endorphins create stability, bonding and long-term commitment I'm just going to put this out here.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'm weird, go on, but I think I'm more likely to be attraction, lust, attachment. Okay, I feel like I'm attracted to someone first, before I have any sexual desire. Shall we say lust in that sense? Yeah and then, through the amalgamation of the two, you become attached. Yeah, can I say, that is that weird.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's I don't think it happens in that order because I also think you probably could be in, and out of those as well yeah, and I reckon you could be attached to someone and then find an attraction exactly you could be friends with someone for a while and think, oh my god, like mitchell and I like. Oh, actually, I quite like this dude and then I an attraction, exactly. You could be friends with someone for a while and think, oh my God, like Mitchell and I like, oh, actually I quite like this dude, and then I end up marrying him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, yeah, it's not. And again, it's like the stages of grief. I mean, I know the stages of grief you do do in a certain order, but there's no timeframe on that. No frame on that. No, you could, you know, go through the angry stage, could you could be going through that for weeks, years or even a few hours, before you then go on to the next stage. Now, with this, I think this is something very similar.
Speaker 1:So you could, you know, you could have the attachment stage for, you know, years yeah yeah, and the last stage could only be you know what I'm saying yeah, and I think yeah I think sometimes in long relationships as well, the lust maybe dies a little bit yeah, I think yeah.
Speaker 2:Not saying that old people don't have sex. I'm just saying that no, no, no, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:What goes on in them care homes?
Speaker 2:Oh God don't. The syphilis is rife, anyway, I think.
Speaker 1:It's chlamydia city.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think people do, isn't that like one of them facts, that syphilis is like the worst in the elder communities and stuff?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they're all at it, aren't they? They're all at it, they're all at it Talking about chlamydia, was there someone? No, actually, no, okay, let's move on.
Speaker 2:I've never had it if that's what you were.
Speaker 1:Wasn't someone going to call their child chlamydia because they thought it was a flower?
Speaker 2:I've told this story before on the podcast, yeah, so I went to. I went to school with a friend whose mom was a midwife and she come into the classroom and was like, yeah, my mom had to persuade someone to not call their child chlamydia because they thought it was a flower. And uh yeah, they're like, um, that's a sexual disease. Like I wouldn't do that for me syphilis.
Speaker 1:You could argue that could always be a flower name as well.
Speaker 2:It's quite nice, isn't it? It's quite a nice name what is? Chlamydia syphilis are quite nice names, I think chlamydia syphilis middle name.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's double barrels. This is my daughter, chlamydia syphilis. This is how she was produced.
Speaker 2:I had it at the time. Um, even herpes isn't that bad. Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Little herpy, little herpy, I suppose. Herp, yeah, herp, glimmery of syphilis, herp.
Speaker 2:That sounds funny. Well, you wouldn't call anyone crabs, would you? What are crabs? What's like the actual proper name for crabs? Oh, it's like genital lice, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, genital lice.
Speaker 2:Oh, genital's not that nice a name.
Speaker 1:This is my cousin gonorrhea, oh crap. Oh, it's like genital lice, isn't it? Yeah, genital lice, oh, genital's. Not that nice, is it? This is my cousin Gonorrhea, oh dear. Anyway, you've already kind of mentioned this and this is the attachment theory. Aha. Yeah, avoid an attachment I was there. When you said this earlier on. I was like I've put the attachment theory in this. I activated my psychologist brain. Yeah, you did, john bolby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could have even told you that as well. So do you want to take over this bit? Oh god, go on, okay, uh, so john john bolby. He had basically the theory of attachment, which is based a lot on a lot of child psychology is actually based on. John bolby now pretty much explains how early relationships with caregivers shape how we love, how we love, how we make relationship as adults. There are four primary attachment styles probably likely to be more over time as well. It will grow. When I first learned this, there was actually only three, so one has been added, which is quite cool, and I think it's the last one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, disorganized attachment, because that was a new one on me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so secure attachment is a healthy love. You're comfortable with intimacy and independence, trust with your partner and communicates well. An anxious attachment is clingy love, so need for constant reassurance, fears being abandoned or unloved. Anxious attachment is very, very common with people who have suffered from cheating with past partners.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very common and in a child-like state it's if their parents have also been unfaithful.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or unfaithful to the boundaries of their relationship also. It doesn't necessarily mean they've gone cheated with someone, but yeah, the boundaries. It's a trauma response.
Speaker 1:It is a trauma response. It's a trauma response what?
Speaker 2:I'm trying to say is that the boundaries between relationships are all very unique, and someone's boundary in. Yours and mum's relationship might be different to mine and mitchell's relationship, for example, but yeah, that's where that one comes in. Avoidant attachment is a distant love, so struggles with emotional closeness and may push people away to maintain independence.
Speaker 2:I think I probably fall more into this one yeah, yeah, yes um, to be honest, I think that would be a different podcast episode on why I've reformed that category, but I would definitely happily admit to being in that one.
Speaker 1:That's where I feel like I would need a notebook and you'd be on a chalange.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And how does that make you feel? Tell me about your parents.
Speaker 2:And then a new one to me is disorganized attachment.
Speaker 1:Try some LSD and come back to me. Is disorganized, and come back to me disorganized attachment is fearful love.
Speaker 2:So a mix of anxious and avoidant behaviors wants closeness, but fears getting hurt. So that might actually. I think that really falls into the anxious attachment as well I think they're very similar but they've obviously decided to define them differently. I think disorganized attachment maybe falls into people that are in relationships that are abusive perhaps. Yeah yeah, might need to put Drew a warning on this episode. I didn't think we would.
Speaker 1:You know, I was just thinking actually, because the way I've kind of scaled this episode up, people are probably thinking, oh, this is all an episode about love, yeah, love, and all that and we're going proper psychological aspects of love and how it all works.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I can't believe. I predicted the rest. I haven't seen this now, I've just seen love as an addiction is the next. I know I am like yeah, I'm on this, I'm all over this shit.
Speaker 1:See, this is you know, I love, love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, studying psychology there you go yeah, I need to get back into it, we're on the same wavelength. On this one we are indeed so, moving on to love as an addiction, the person that I think of when I think of love as an addiction is Russell Brand. He talks about this a lot in his bookie book. Yes, he does yes, and the reason I'm saying that is because that's what his biography was called by the way. Yeah, so he is. Did you read it?
Speaker 1:Have you read it I?
Speaker 2:haven't actually read it through and through. I've read it.
Speaker 1:It, it doesn't, it doesn't, it does kind of from through the eyes of an addict. Yes, it's very and it's very relatable. You can see how we, how he does. But there's also a little bit of comedy in there as well. Well, yes, you know his comedy, and when he talks about his addiction, because he switches from one addiction to another, addiction just to, but he's just, I think he's addicted to addiction yes, yeah yeah we're not advocating for Russell Brand, by the way, oh, absolutely not Because I know he's come out in the news
Speaker 2:recently as something else and waiting to hear trial on that. So this is not that, but I just think of him when I think of love as an addiction because of what he wrote about it. But yeah, love as an addiction is obsessive, so similar to cravings of drugs and alcohol, euphoric as in it, triggers extreme highs and of course, you get the extreme lows of that, which is the painful part, and that's why you're looking always for that high.
Speaker 1:Now, when people say they broke my heart because the heart as well, the heart is supposed to be the organ of love, isn't it? Yeah, but you've got the love heart, because a heart doesn't actually look like a love heart. No it doesn't, it doesn't. Your heart is the beating heart, but when someone says, right, they broke my heart. Have you ever had your heart broken Like literally shredded?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does hurt your heart. Yeah, it is there, it's weird.
Speaker 2:So I think a lot of people hold their stress and their anxiety in their chest. It's a really common response because not only have you got your heart in there, you've got a lot of your vital organs. So your lungs is another one, and when someone has a panic attack particularly, one of the symptoms of a panic attack is labored breathing or hyperventilating is another one. So your chest is obviously expanding and de-expanding quicker than normal and then it will ache because the muscles are working harder.
Speaker 1:It does it aches. It's weird. It's a weird feeling.
Speaker 2:And people can die of heartbreak as well, particularly in the older generations as well. Often you find that when one goes, the other one kind of falls shortly after. It's not the case, in all cases. But that is a thing as well, because people it's almost like they lose that, the thing that they were living a life for.
Speaker 1:It almost joins you together, so much that you become one. You become that one unit.
Speaker 2:And I think when that part of you is missing, you know I can't imagine, or I wouldn't be able to imagine, the heartbreak that you'd feel from losing your significant other and I hope I don't see that for quite a few years, or at all maybe, I think, and it's gone down a bit of a sad turn but, I think when someone suffers the death of a significant other, particularly in the older years, it's a time when we need to step up as the younger generation and actually be there for them.
Speaker 2:That's, I guess, another note for another time, but I do think that it's really beneficial to keep around those people that have lost loved ones, particularly because of that. But yeah, you're right, the physical feeling is in your chest. I don't know. I think I have read somewhere where the whole heart thing come from.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:There was a reason behind why it is shaped the way it is because, it doesn't look like obviously a conventional heart. But yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, it is all-encompassing, All-encompassing, all-encompassing, and it can be all-consuming. Sorry, not all-encompassing, but when someone does have heartbreak like that, it consumes your entire being. Your mind and body, physical and emotional responses yeah, and then it's almost linked to the grief stages. Absolutely yeah, you go through the stages of grief as well at the same time.
Speaker 2:Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Speaker 1:It isn't it's all kind of tied in together so, but there are of course benefits to love. It's not all doom and gloom. It's not all doom and gloom. You know it's not all doom and gloom. You know it can. You know you can see it when the heart Back to the heart. You know people skipping down the road. They have that glow about them because they're in love.
Speaker 2:It seems to reduce stress and anxiety.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Mostly because of those chemicals that are rocking around like oxytocin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Improves your mental health.
Speaker 2:What goes up must come down, so it improves your mental health, lowers depression, increases happiness again because of those chemicals running around around your body as well. Enhances motivation and productivity, boost energy and focus, makes you want to well do stuff in life. Yeah, go out, do stuff together or make yourself a better person for that significant other potentially yeah, strengthens resilience, provides emotional support during hardships, and I can definitely attest to that one for sure. That's why your marriage vows are, you know, sickness and in health and for richer or poorer?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I can't, I can't even remember sickness and health till death.
Speaker 2:Us depart, yes does it still say that? Did you say that I don't?
Speaker 1:know, I can't even remember what mean we just chose the shortest vows possible yeah, do you, I do, do you, I do, you are and the marriage was done and the marriage was done. I didn't keep you all that long did I, no, no, I just love the fact that. I just the fact that underneath your wedding dress, you had trainers on. I did, I know, and I just thought that was just brilliant, because I was just aware that you, because the first thing you showed me was like look at my trainers, I.
Speaker 2:I just refuse to wear heels on my wedding day because, they're just so there's no point I'm not a heel person and also I did want a little bit height, so they were like elevated trainers and I um, I just thought they were adequate for yeah what they were yeah, great.
Speaker 1:And a boogie, it's all good so obviously we're looking at, we're looking at love from very much kind of Western civilization.
Speaker 2:Yes, we are, that's also true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are other cultures, of course, many, many, many other cultures where love is looked at. I mean, I'll be brutally honest, I don't know much about them.
Speaker 2:No, I mean we come from Western culture and I wouldn't feel comfortable. I wouldn't, no Going into anyone else's culture, but yeah, we are talking.
Speaker 1:Absolutely not, Absolutely not. So they say. Love is a universal language, but love is looked at through different cultures in different ways.
Speaker 2:I mean in some cultures love is maybe a necessity for bonding families together. Arranged marriage is another thing. Exactly, yeah, you know I'm not here to judge or make comment, comment on that, but but yeah, there are different types of love and different types of union um courtship.
Speaker 1:yeah, the ritual, isn't it like the whole, even marriage is a ritual, it's well, it is yeah you know, essentially it's like this ritual of um. You know all say it, it's just a piece of paper.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about love in the modern world. Let's talk about this generationally. I know you met mum through a blind date, through your grandmother which we have discussed multiple times, but you wouldn't have had anything like Tinder. No, no. So can I ask you were with my mum at my age, but can we just let's rock back so when you were, let's say, 20.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:How were you finding a mate?
Speaker 1:Finding a mate. Yes, you would go to a club and you would do some ritual dance until a member of a female would look at me and think, wow, look at him, groove now. Um, no, generally, it was, it was going out. It was, it was going out. It was pubs, clubs, socializing, socializing right, socializing more than anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, physically socializing as well as in, like you are out and about yeah, talking to people talking to people, because the places that you're going to are likely to have people with the similar interest to you I guess right, yeah, yeah it's interesting to me that you said you went out and, uh, we're looking for the, the female attraction. That was a very kind of, uh, very heterosexual way of thinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, may I say yeah yeah yeah, um, but I think nowadays it's a little bit more blurred, so I think you can go on Tinder, for example, and I've never been on Tinder, so this is really bad coming from someone like me, but I found Mitchell. Before Tinder was really a thing Like nowadays you can set kind of your preferences already on the app. So you went to. What I'm trying to say is that you went to a place where I was setting my preferences in real life.
Speaker 2:In real life, you were going to that place, thinking that, ah, if I go to this place, people will. The people that I want to attract are in that place because they have the same interest as me yeah but now you're doing that on an app yeah right and I think I think the difference and, if I may say, it's the difference between you looking for a mate, let's say back then, it's like being in the jungle, exactly right and now going on tinder you were probably less shallow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then maybe people now on tinder, because I think tinder's kind of a lot of look based right because you swipe left, you swipe right yeah I'm not saying that you didn't have that back then, but I feel like, because you were in the same vicinity, you at least knew that that person liked the same music for example, or whatever you were doing, we used to.
Speaker 1:I mean this. This is something that I know, that I, I think you know. We're going into a different realm now as well, when, when I was, if you knew what people, what music people liked by what they were wearing yes, a lot of is also true. Whereas now those lines are blurred because everyone's got their own individual. I think there's a lot more of individual style than what there is of group mentality when it comes to things like that.
Speaker 2:I agree with that as well. So you knew kind of what you were looking for, yeah, whereas I don't think nowadays people know what they're looking for. They just know what their preferences are.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I, those people know what they're looking for. They just know what their preferences are. Yeah, and I think that's a massive difference and I think it is.
Speaker 1:A lot of it is based on looks, which for me isn't like the top of the list. Again, it of course it's like anything at the moment if it doesn't grab your attention in a few seconds.
Speaker 1:You move on, exactly yeah which is awful to think about when it comes to reducing it down to people yeah, so when you, when you're like, you know like scrolling through tiktok videos or facebook reels or things like that, if it doesn't catch your attention in the first few seconds, you move on. I assume tinder's probably the same, isn't it? You're kind of scrolling through, I don't again, I don't.
Speaker 2:I'm not on tinder, but yes, I assume. So, yeah, it's a swipe left, swipe right for yes or no, basically, and how we navigate long distance relationships. Now we have the digital and technology, technological advancements that we can do long distance really well. We've got ipads.
Speaker 2:We can facetime yeah where were you going to the phone box to make a call to your significant other in I don't know japan? I don't know why japan came to my head, but but yeah, like how you know, long distance calls like that I don't think you're accessible. I mean, yeah, because of course we didn't, we didn't really have that many mobile phones, so, head, but but yeah, like how you know, long distance calls like that I don't think you're as accessible I mean, yeah, because of course we didn't, we didn't really have that many mobile phones, so mobile phones wasn't really a thing.
Speaker 1:So you would arrange to me or whatever. It wasn't instant messaging you couldn't do there, there wasn't. But no, I mean when I was growing, I mean when I was really little, we didn't even have a phone yeah you know, just a phone box do you know?
Speaker 2:something that we do now that you definitely didn't do back then go on, is that we stalk someone. So before we even like go out with someone, we try to gauge whether they're creepy or not just by looking at their social media whoa.
Speaker 1:So pop kettle black there well yeah, exactly because you're being the creepy one exactly exactly that's what I was the point I was gonna make is the fact that I would go on if I was meeting someone now.
Speaker 2:I would be looking at their socials, making sure that everything they've told me is all correct and makes sense, because I, because this world is so with all the technological advancements, with AI and stuff, I think there is probably a lot of people out there that are quite scared that they're not going to meet the person that they've been talking to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that, yeah, I get that yeah, it makes me the creep.
Speaker 2:Yes, I guess for stalking them, but actually I'm doing it from a place of I need to make sure that I'm going to be safe. Now that might be from a female perspective, where I'm coming from, because it's arguably not as safe for us um I'm sure there are females, that catfish. But I would just say we're more likely to fall into some uh situation where we physically can't get out of it because of our physical power is lower, but yeah, you wouldn't have done that back then no, absolutely, not absolutely there's no way you could stalk someone to make sure that what they were telling you was legitimate now.
Speaker 1:Have you seen fatal attraction? No, I haven't. Michael douglas, and uh, oh god, I can't remember who it was. No, yeah, bunny boiler. That's where the term bunny boiler comes from.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought that was a balls of steel thing.
Speaker 1:No, no, the term bunny boiler comes from Fatal Attraction. Oh right. Because in the film she was so obsessed with him she did kill the bunny and boiled the bunny in a pot.
Speaker 2:That's awful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's where the term comes from, glenn Close.
Speaker 2:I have no idea what you're on about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So no, I mean, yeah, this whole stalking thing online is. I mean, that's just weird. I know it sounds weird, but it's coming from a place of I need to protect myself. The funny thing is, the funny thing is like now, because I've been with your mum now for 21 years yes, and we've been married for 20 years.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:If God forbid, God forbid anything was to happen, right and say I would then just go back out there dating again, I wouldn't have a clue what to do genuinely, wouldn't yeah, yeah, yeah, I think yeah it's.
Speaker 2:It's just a different world, it is a completely different world. I'm not sure, and entirely sure, if I could navigate it yeah and I'm really glad that I found my forever person, because I do. I don't want to be in this stage ever again, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean going back to the psychology of love. Yeah, all right, going back to that one and we're looking at. I think we're in the, I'm in the endorphins, okay, you know, the feeling of being at home with a loved one. Yes, that's where I am yeah, I'm happy.
Speaker 2:Thank you, yeah I don't want all that malarkey yeah, I think there's lots of stages to love, like you've got that. A lot of people talk about the honeymoon phase, yeah, versus like the long, long-term commitment. You know, love does evolve over time and because you evolve over time, you get older, you get more mature, you get, you know you, you find yourself in a relationship and some people do fall out with love and that's, I think again, perfectly natural and normal and nothing to be grumbled about. Yeah, divorce is horrible, but actually isn't it worse staying together unhappy?
Speaker 1:that would be my argument.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly you know you can have healthy and unhealthy relationships. We've sort of touched oh yeah but yeah, I think you know, love has to work it, it has to evolve, and I think that's a good thing. Self-love, personal growth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, indeed.
Speaker 2:As you go through life and life's challenges together.
Speaker 1:So I think love is a great thing, it's a wonderful thing. We should all feel love and we should all be loved.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But in the right way.
Speaker 2:Exactly. In the right way we should all be loved. Yes, but in the right way. Exactly, that's in the right way. Yeah, and love between whoever you love, providing it's it's appropriate and consensual. But I can't see an issue with it. Yeah, yeah, in the most blanket term possible um, yeah, so, um, love, love guys love, love, love, love, love, but the right way the right way, the consensual way, yeah, the appropriate way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love, love yeah, don't eat too many chocolates on valentine's day why, well expensive, aren't they?
Speaker 2:they're expensive.
Speaker 1:Yes, um valentine's day chocolate they wrap the prices up just because it's valentine's day.
Speaker 2:When's the best time to buy chocolate? No, the day after easter. I know it's a bit late for valentine's, but it's for next year.
Speaker 1:But but again, why? Why celebrate love on one day? What is the point of valentine's day?
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people celebrate love on valentine's, but also any anniversary so it could be the first time they kissed anniversary, or the first time they were intimate anniversary, or the first time they got engaged. First time I got engaged at the engagement anniversary, like we used to. The first time they got engaged, yeah, the first time they got engaged, the engagement anniversary we used to celebrate that before we got married.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, you should celebrate love every day. You're right. Yeah, you should appreciate each other. More flowers, more chocolates. Speaking for myself yeah, I know my husband listens to the podcast.
Speaker 1:But the currency of love is flowers and chocolates. It shouldn't be. It should just be the little things that you do.
Speaker 2:I love it when Mitchell cooks me a meal or looks after me when I'm falling.
Speaker 1:I love it when Mitchell cooks a meal.
Speaker 2:I know you do, I know, see, that's love, that's love, that's love. Yeah, a lot of love goes into it. I know, and yeah, I think we probably should leave it there, right, yeah, yeah, so we're gonna cue your outro. Oh yeah, cue the outro. I don't have to say it anymore. See you next time. Thanks for joining us on bonus dad, bonus daughter. Don't forget to follow us on all our socials and share the podcast with someone who'd love it. We are available on all streaming platforms. See you next time. Bye-bye.