Bonus Dad Bonus Daughter
Welcome to "Bonus Dad, Bonus Daughter," a heartwarming and insightful podcast celebrating the unique bond between a stepfather Davey, and his stepdaughter Hannah.
Join them as they explore the joys, challenges, and everyday moments that make this relationship special.
Each episode they take a topic and discuss the differences, similarities and the effect each one had one them
Featuring candid conversations, personal stories, and many laughs
Whether you're a step-parent, stepchild, or simply interested in family dynamics, "Bonus Dad, Bonus Daughter" offers a fresh perspective on love, family, and the bonds that unite us.
Bonus Dad Bonus Daughter
Challenging Labels: Stereotypes, Identity, and Embracing Individuality
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Ever wondered how stereotypes shape our identities and perceptions? Join us as we unravel the complex tapestry of stereotypes, exploring how these oversimplified ideas about groups of people can be both limiting and enlightening. We promise you'll come away with a deeper understanding of how stereotypes, from the classic image of a stern librarian to the notion of tech-savvy youth, subtly influence our daily interactions and the unconscious biases we harbor. Our candid discussions, peppered with personal anecdotes, reveal the surprising ways we all fall prey to these assumptions, despite our best efforts to see beyond them.
In our exploration, we challenge traditional gender norms and generational stereotypes, sharing stories of how personal experiences have defied societal expectations. Whether it's breaking free from the stereotype that women are solely emotional or showcasing how older generations can be just as adaptive to new technology as their younger counterparts, our conversation digs into the heart of what makes us unique beyond societal labels. We also tackle the self-fulfilling nature of stereotypes, emphasizing the importance of recognizing diverse experiences and resisting the urge to pigeonhole individuals based on their age, gender, or profession.
Finally, we take a closer look at stereotypes within various professions and how they shape societal perceptions. From the ruthless lawyer to the struggling artist, we expose the cultural narratives that perpetuate these limiting views. By sharing personal stories and cultural insights, we highlight the necessity of challenging and redefining these stereotypes for a more inclusive society. We believe that through mutual learning and respect across generations, and advocating for diversity in media and workplaces, we can foster empathy and understanding, ultimately embracing the individuality that lies beyond the surface. Join us on this enlightening journey toward a more empathetic and nuanced world.
Hello and welcome to Bonus Dad. Bonus Daughter a special father-daughter podcast with me Hannah and me, davy, where we discuss our differences, similarities, share a few laughs and stories. Within our ever-changing and complex world, Each week we will discuss a topic from our own point of view and influences throughout the decades, or you could choose one by contacting us via email, Instagram, Facebook or TikTok Links in bio.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to another episode of Bonus Dad, Bonus Daughter podcast. We're going to talk about stereotypes today.
Speaker 1:We are indeed Sorry. I was just taking a drink.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't. My intro wasn't long enough for you to take a sip, was it? Yeah, I just had a sip of water. I went straight in. I was like swallow that.
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean, I mean, yeah, I thought we'd talk about, yeah, just discuss an overview of stereotypes. Obviously, some of the things that we might discuss in this might be sort of edging on to a little bit of controversial. Yes, but, like with everything that we do, we will keep it lighthearted. Yeah, of course, and you know, we'll just be discussing stereotypes.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that we agree with them Absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's just what they are.
Speaker 2:We're going to navigate this as carefully as possible. We are indeed. We are indeed.
Speaker 1:So, first of all, what is a stereotype? What would you class as a definition of a stereotype? Bear in mind, I'm looking at it on the screen now.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So for me, I think, a stereotype is something that you uh, you tar everyone with the same brush. You yeah, there's it. It's a, it's an assumption or a viewpoint, or it could be anything actually that you attribute to a certain group of people exactly, and I think.
Speaker 1:I think it's fair to say that some stereotypes can be. Would you? Would you say they're negative? Yes and no.
Speaker 2:Yeah I think there are negative stereotypes and stereotypes can be would you say they're negative?
Speaker 1:Yes, and no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there are negative stereotypes and they can be very damaging. Yeah, I think there are positive stereotypes that may also be damaging, but also positive as well. I think they're lazy.
Speaker 1:Yes, they're lazy. Yes, when you stereotype people, you are oversimplifying something as well.
Speaker 2:And I think stereotypes as well. I think we all are. I don't know if victim's the right word, but I think we all, at some point in our lives, will be stereotyped, and that could be anything to do with age, gender, race.
Speaker 1:I have. Yeah, I know you have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, depending on what we're into and the hobbies that we do as well. So, yeah, I think there are stereotypes, I think we all suffer from them, but it's fair to say some more than others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mentioned kind of unconscious bias as well. Yes, you know in previous episodes, and I think we do. You know the way people's mind works. You see someone, you immediately form an opinion on them, and quite a lot of the time it's to do with the stereotype.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think as well as much as I'd like to say that we've both been victims of stereotypes, we've also probably had our own assumptions about people. Because, I think that's only natural that we would do so.
Speaker 1:Indeed. Indeed, I mean to me, I think, the definition of a stereotype is it's a very, very oversimplified idea about groups of people. I mean, it's got an example here. It says, for instance and I was saying, that all librarians are quiet and wear glasses.
Speaker 2:Well, I wear glasses. I'm not very quiet, but I'm not a librarian either.
Speaker 1:But you know, I think that's an interesting. So all librarians are quiet and wear glasses. So when you say librarian, what's the first thing that pops into your head? What image do you get of a librarian?
Speaker 2:A woman with a bun on her head and glasses, exactly, and very timid. You do, don't you? You get that impression, and I think so I've been. I've picked up reading again very recently and there's always kind of like a stereotype lady in the book.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And she's always timid and quiet and wouldn't hurt a mouse. You know, there's no, you know, empowering woman in there that's a little bit extrovert and a little bit like a little bit quirky or something like that. You know, and there's, it's always the kind of the same stereotype.
Speaker 1:It's the same person in each. Every single book that I've read recently just seems to have the same main character. How many films and how many shows have you seen where you've got the? You know the lady with?
Speaker 2:the bun and the glasses as the librarian?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then what happens? Yeah, so you get this librarian lady timid. She's got glasses, got hair in her bun, but then she takes her glasses off and the hair comes down, and then she's sexy, and she's sexy yeah, yeah, and it's almost like you know you go from, from plain jane, I think, is one of the things they say to this beautiful, sultry, sexy woman, and it's all to do with her hair and glasses but I'm just gonna say I think women with glasses still can be sexy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course they sexy.
Speaker 1:She says sitting here as a woman with glasses thanks stereotypes, yeah I think, you know, let's take that particular stereotype of the librarian, but I think that's been fed to us through so, through media, through the likes of oh it, definitely, like you just said, in books, and also, like I just said, in films and TV shows as well. So that's the kind of image that you get. I mean, look at you, not you, you, but the series you oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a librarian.
Speaker 2:He is, isn't he? But he's also a serial killer. He's also a serial killer. It's always the quiet ones. It's always the quiet ones. That's the stereotype, isn't it?
Speaker 1:There you go. It's always the quiet ones. So a little bit of historical context. So where kind of stereotypes came from? Is that in medieval times, people believed that certain physical traits indicated a person's profession or character, and I love the example that they've used here, because straight in with your stereotype, what people think about you.
Speaker 2:Red hair being associated with a fiery temper oh yes which and which annoyingly gets me very fiery. Um, yeah, so I, I actually would say, I'm a very, very chill person even though I do have red hair, but what I will say is that I am passionate about the things I believe in.
Speaker 1:Yes, you are.
Speaker 2:But that comes across sometimes as being fiery.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I am just strong-willed, yeah, but the thing is, I'm very mild-mannered. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But when I lose my shit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we're the same People notice. And you don't have red hair.
Speaker 1:No, but people notice. And people know you don't have red hair.
Speaker 2:No, but people notice, and I think it's because I'm so mild-mannered when I do lose my temper people it shocks people, yeah they're like jesus if he's wound up, then something must be wrong I, I don't think, I, I don't think I get angry that often, but if well, I don't no, you don't, you don't but I do know that when I I am aware sorry I should say that when I do fight for my corner, I understand that I can come across quite abrupt but you also, you will fight to the death it's, I think sometimes I'm sometimes a bit too brutally honest and I think that's what gets me that trait.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people think yeah no, I can say it, but, but also I think you. But you do, it's only when you're absolutely sure. Oh yeah, I will only fight my corner, yeah I'm 100, correct?
Speaker 2:yeah, I know I'm 100, because if I don't know, I will just say I think it's this, but I don't know exactly, and I'll hold up my hands and be like I. I have no idea what you're on about yeah, I think it's this yeah but if I know 100 that I am correct, I will absolutely find my corner exactly, yeah, I mean, there's something else about people with red hair as well.
Speaker 1:Isn't there where they're saying you know, you have no soul?
Speaker 2:yeah, gingers have no soul gingers have no souls that was all due to a youtube video that came out and I don't know the noughties yeah, exactly um, yeah, yeah, we have no soul yeah I can confirm, and every freckle on my body is a soul that I've taken. I don't have that many freckles for a redhead either, so, um, do with that information what you will, yeah but that is there you go.
Speaker 1:That is, I mean third, third paragraph in, and we're already hitting your particular stereotype. Yeah, I think like how do you feel about that, Hannah?
Speaker 2:It's just a really common one and I totally get it. But if a brunette girl also had a fiery temper, nothing would be said about it. I think that's what annoys me the most.
Speaker 1:Is that?
Speaker 2:oh, because I'm red.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I must be fiery, yeah, but I think Is there a brunette stereotype, because I always say like look, blondes are dumb, blondes are dumb, red heads are fiery. What are brunettes?
Speaker 2:Boring. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I don't know, I can't think of one, I don't know. Yeah, blondes are dumb, obviously, that is so not true, but I think, like I would say oh, I'm having a dumb moment, which is something I probably shouldn't say, but yes, it's become like a common phrase yeah of saying oh, I'm having a bit of a silly moment.
Speaker 1:I was being blonde. Yeah, I was being blonde, yeah which is quite bad actually, yeah it is yeah, yeah, so, uh. So the types I mean looking at different types, there's, there's quite a few types of stereotypes. There's, uh, there's the racial and ethnic stereotypes.
Speaker 2:There's gender stereotypes, age-related stereotypes, social economic stereotypes and occupational stereotypes yeah so racial and ethnic ones it's like saying that asian people, asian people, are smart yeah, for example. Yeah and good at maths.
Speaker 1:And I mean I've seen videos on TikTok where some people from Asia they actually play on that stereotype as well. I mean, have you seen that one, that image of the guy who I think he worked for NASA, he went in special forces and he was also a doctor and he was like in his 40s and you know there's there's an image of them in all three areas. And then somebody else, uh, from his ethnic group underneath went my worst nightmare would be his mum. Knowing my mum, yeah, you know, because, because again there's that stereotype of parents within asia have got these high expectation of their children that is a stereotype yeah and I think for social, it's probably true in a lot of ways, and that's where stereotypes come from.
Speaker 2:They do come from a source of truth, and I think particularly in the UK and saying that Asian people are good at maths and stuff is because they've actually had a different educational upbringing and therefore maybe their curriculum focuses more on maths and those things. It's a stereotype. It doesn't mean that all asian people are good at maths. It just means that you know there is. It's come from some sort of truth somewhere. Yeah, um, talking about asian stereotypes and we mentioned this in a podcast recently. That's come back up again. Um, zach and cody um, the tv show had a smart blonde and a dumb asian. Really, yeah, because it was, um, uh, ashley Tisdale who plays the blonde one.
Speaker 1:That's correct, she was always really smart. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Asian Brenda Song, but I can't remember her name in the actual I can't remember her character name now London Tipton.
Speaker 1:There you go, it's come to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she was deemed dumb.
Speaker 1:So almost trying to challenge, challenge, challenge the stereotypes over. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but again, I think a lot of it is is come from from media again as well, you know a lot of these, uh, but yeah, I think, I think the racial and ethnic ones can be quite damaging.
Speaker 1:yes, they can really be damaging, yeah um, but even even the gender stereotypes, I think are damaging. You know, they're saying that men are much you know, clever at science and things like that, and women are seen to be more emotional and nurturing. I mean, that in itself is also, I think just damaging and bullshit.
Speaker 2:So, to come in a little bit on the psychological side, there's something called male brain theory, which I don't agree with the name of it, but it's the talk about autism and things like that as well. There's this theory that autistic people have a male brain and that means that they use more of their right side, or can't remember if it's actually the left side now, but there's. There's a certain side of the brain that's used more, um, in people that that are on the spectrum, and it's called male brain theory because it's more the logical side yeah, exactly so that's where that kind of stereotype doesn't come from.
Speaker 2:I'm not not saying that originated from there. I'm saying that they play on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's why it's called male brain theory, which I don't agree with as such. Women, emotional and nurturing. I would say that I, as a woman, I'm not very nurturing at all. However, I would say I'm emotional and I do have a larger emotional breadth than most. I would say I'm a very empathetic person. Actually, often I find myself if someone else is down.
Speaker 2:It makes me feel down yeah which is silly, but it is one of those things that I've always been quite, I guess, empathetic, yeah, in most cases, but I wouldn't say I'm very nurturing. But also I did really good at maths at school you did do very well maths and science were my like top, I got a's at gcse. So you know I I'm against, I guess, the most, most stereotypes in that sense yeah but then I would say I mean, are you good at maths?
Speaker 1:no, I'm terrible. No, maths I'm not very good at at all. I you know, I'm more.
Speaker 2:I'm more english orientated you know, so you're more creative I'm more creative yeah, I had the more logical stuff, but I don't know if that's just because I've. I think I've had this argument on the podcast before is that our education, education system in the uk is very heavily based on how good your memory is.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah it's not on how you solve a problem yeah it's not.
Speaker 2:It doesn't our exams and what we have. I understand why we have them, but also I think a lot of it is a memory test.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Lack of critical thinking, more of oh, I can remember this formula for this thing and I, unfortunately, was very good at that. I was very good at remembering things, and that's, I think, why I did so well at those particular subjects, compared to other ones, like English, where I got a B for example, but weirdly enough, I was always really good at religion and you think, well, that's completely subjective, so it's kind of like one of them weird.
Speaker 2:I think I floated in the middle of this stereotype of I was good at some things and not good at others. But that is because we're human and we're unique and that's how we go through our lives and that's why stereotypes can be so damaging yeah, is that? We are, but also individuals also.
Speaker 1:If you fall into a stereotype, uh bracket you almost.
Speaker 2:Then become a self-fulfilling prophecy and then you start start exhibiting those types of behaviors so when I, when I get fiery, uh, I'm being a fiery redhead. I will call myself a fiery redhead, even though I don't really like the saying yeah but yeah, I do refer to myself as, oh, being a bit of a redhead today or, as I said, I'm having a blonde moment, or whatever. So we do start to almost kind of imprint them on ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do, and we fall in line and conform to the stereotype. So there's age-related stereotypes as well, and we've seen that teens are seen as rebellious and tech savvy, while adults are forgetful and resistant to change yeah, and we talk about this a lot because we do talk about our different generations and how we grew up and this is kind of where this podcast originated from.
Speaker 2:Was, yeah, the difference between me and you it being in different generations but only 21 years apart. So I think this is quite an important one for us to touch on really, because, yeah, I guess I would look at often when we go round your house, and this is not a dig at all.
Speaker 1:Oh, here we go.
Speaker 2:But if there is a tech problem that you and mum are having, you always ask Mitchell, because he's in IT 100%. Not because he's a young person, but because he's in IT, you automatically think he'll fix it. He's like I don't know how to work a printer. Well, he does. But it's just as an example. He's like oh, I don't use Mac, so I don't really know how to fix this problem for you, but he's really good at Googling the answer, Whereas I think sometimes and this is tarring everyone with the same brush and stereotyping.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're stereotyping. This is what I'm going to do.
Speaker 2:I'm going to stereotype right now Is that your generation seem to be afraid of trying to fix the problem.
Speaker 1:You'd rather not touch it because you're worried that you're going to break it even further. Oh, hannah, that's not, that's not my generation, that's me, that is just me, just you. So when, when? You're like I don't want to touch it because I'll break it further your mum will not let me do anything because she knows I'll break it.
Speaker 2:I will I know it's like but you don't even try to like, you don't even try to google it, you're just like oh, I just give up, ask someone else.
Speaker 1:So the other day at work the other day at work, uh, one of my colleagues came in and he's just like oh, I just give up, I'll ask someone else, just Google it. So the other day at work one of my colleagues came in and he's just ordered these things to help out some of the staff, and he came into my office.
Speaker 2:Sorry that was so vague. I know you're trying to not be too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have to be careful.
Speaker 2:I know you have to be careful, but that was the vaguest thing, my colleague bought some things to help us out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he walked in with them and he was trying to get them to work.
Speaker 2:Is it a technology-based item? It's a technology-based item.
Speaker 1:And he was holding these things in one hand and in the other hand he was holding the instructions. And he walked into my office and immediately I went what are you doing? And he went what I said throw them away. I said their instructions.
Speaker 1:We don't read instructions, we just do you know, and it's that same kind of thing and yeah, and we both, it made us both laugh because it's a kind of latitude. But yeah, I mean, when it comes to it's like even putting a shelf up, your mum will not let me do it because she knows I will mess it up yeah, you're not.
Speaker 2:You're not very gifted with diy, considering that you are a man who was supposed to be good at diy stereotypically.
Speaker 1:Um, and my dad and my brother, as I said before, yeah, could build a house out of nothing. Yeah, and I cannot do anything like that at all you didn't get those genes I definitely did not get those genes, really really didn't. But but would you say, when you say about adults being resistant to change, would you say is that true? Do?
Speaker 2:you think I. So I experienced this quite a lot, actually as a project manager with certain systems in place yes I do find the biggest resistance sometimes is from those that are well-versed in another program and do not wish to change from that program. So I do get this one. However, I also find that there are young people also in the same position who are also resistant to change of those programs. So actually I don't agree with this. I think some people just don't like change and some people are willing to adapt.
Speaker 1:I yeah, that is just it and I don't think that's an age thing, I think that's just an individual thing.
Speaker 2:That is an individual thing yeah, definitely but yeah you know, and also the forgetful one. My husband is the most forgetful person I've ever met in my life and he's almost 30, so I wouldn't say, well, I guess he is a young person in comparison to to others, but I wouldn't call him an old or an elderly person.
Speaker 1:So therefore, yeah, I don't agree with that really no, I mean yeah, I think that gets me about the age stereotype as well is? I see it all the time, you know. You see it on community groups, on facebook and things like that, and they're going oh, there's a group of kids outside and they're playing.
Speaker 1:They're youths yeah they're probably up to no good. Yeah, in my generation we were always outside playing. It's nice to see that. Yeah, it's like. Just because it's a group of kids outside, don't immediately assume that they're ne'er-do-wells are up to no good, well, and us as young people.
Speaker 2:We see a group of older people of the old generation. We're like, well, they're going to be racist, aren't they exactly?
Speaker 1:yeah, we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what we do, yeah and some do live up to that stereotype yeah, some do some really don't, some really don't, some really don't. Yeah it's. It's a difficult one I used to hate, particularly as when I was a teen, I remember people thinking that I was a ruffian or something. You know that I was, but I was a very much a goody two-shoes, as you as you know yeah I wasn't a very troublesome team I was so lucky you were incredibly lucky, so I think you know why?
Speaker 1:do you know why? Why it's good parenting.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah but I think, I think that used to annoy me a lot as a teen. Yeah, thinking that people thought I was going to shoplift or I was going to do this or I was going to do that. You know, it's that automatic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know, and even now, when I walk out of a shop and I see the security guard, I feel the need to smile at them like I'm not stealing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know that's terrible, and I'm 30 almost. I used to work for a very well-known supermarket, right, a very well-known supermarket, and, as you know, I am very different people depending on what I'm doing. I have many different sides to my personality and I must have been what. Early 20s and I went into another store, same supermarket chain, bearing in mind I was a manager at what, this particular another supermarket. Went into another store, same chain.
Speaker 1:I got followed by the security because of what I was wearing yeah, a trench coat yeah, it was on a hot summer day. On a hot summer day, yeah, no, and he was following me around and I was really conscious of this store detective, who was not the best store detective, because he stood out a mile and he was, and in the end I slid up to him and went by the way, can you stop following me? I'm actually customer service manager at this store yeah and he went. Okay, sorry, leave me alone.
Speaker 1:Man yes but, but just because of what I was, because I'd literally just come back from a festival. I was then. Now, yes, I remember when I was in Ibiza once.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:This is a little bit of a story and we were at an airport and saw some ravers getting into the airport Ravers, ravers.
Speaker 2:It was back in the 90s. Yeah, you just aged where you were in the world then.
Speaker 1:And I remember in the airport watching them go into the toilets and come out wearing suits.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:And I thought nice one, Because you know now you'll probably not get searched.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because people profile Smart.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Profile them. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So we've got the social economic stereotype and this is kind of rich people always seen to be snobby and out of touch and toffs and oh, four, four, four, four, while poor people are lazy and irresponsible yeah, um, I'm gonna talk about this one because I I've mentioned on the podcast several times before that I have a chronic illness and I go to the doctors quite a lot more than the average joe, let's say, and that's a stereotype average joe average stereotype. Sorry, all joes ever um, but what happens?
Speaker 2:I know one, joe, and he's definitely not average I know, I think I know the same same Joe that you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Oh, you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so is he of the pirate nature? Oh, wrong Joe. Oh, we're thinking of two different Joes. You're thinking of two different.
Speaker 1:Joes, I'm talking about my.
Speaker 2:Joe, neither one of those are average. Yeah, I'm talking about my Joe I was thinking of pirate Joe, anyway, who hits the yeah, the tubs. Um so uh for me when I go to the doctors and I don't put makeup on and don't make an effort, because sometimes I am so poorly. I don't give a crap when I go there. I do not get taken as seriously when I do myself up. I've noticed really social experiment there for you? Yeah, but I have noticed that I don't get taken as seriously really.
Speaker 2:Really yeah, which I think is quite bad. So people are stereotyping me as someone. Maybe that looks socioeconomically less because I haven't done my makeup and not wearing my work clothes etc. And it's just oh, it's just period pain, or it's just this, or it's just that and it's just oh, it's just period pain, or it's just this, or it's just that. But when I'm looking a little bit more put together shall we say oh right, okay, yeah, okay, we'll try out some different methods for you. Come in.
Speaker 1:It's a little bit of a difference between Hannah and Mrs Nurse.
Speaker 2:Mrs Nurse, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And that's very bad. It is Because why should someone that appears to be socioeconomically lesser have less access to medical needs? Medical, medical yeah, I can't think of what the word is but yeah, Stereotypes are so damaging. Because there is less access to opportunities and services, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is that needs to change? Yeah, it does. Yeah, it's just not kosher, you know it's just not good, it's not good. So I personally have that's probably the worst stereotype that catches me out most in my life- Absolutely, they're awful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because then you have got the occupational stereotypes yeah, such as lawyers um are seen as kind of ruthless and money hungry, while artists are seen as free-spirited and financially unstable well, that's not necessarily untrue, no, but there's always some truth behind these stereotypes.
Speaker 2:But actually there are some artists that are um someone's incredibly stable and incredibly savvy with money yeah, I mean, I mean, andy warhol must be, yeah, it must be. I mean, you know, let's see, let's just let's just let's just take lawyers for an example.
Speaker 1:Now you think about the role that they do. So their job itself is yeah, I suppose you could argue that they have to be quite ruthless.
Speaker 2:I think they have to be tough.
Speaker 1:yeah, Because they're playing the game of law.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also.
Speaker 1:It's a battle, it's a battleground and you have to be that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Isn't it Legally Blonde where they touch on the fact that if you're going to be a lawyer, you have to like she was asked what kind of witness would you? No, what kind of I don't know what the word is of the plaintiff.
Speaker 1:Plaintiff yeah.
Speaker 2:What you know? What plaintiff would you rather? And she goes. I'd rather an innocent one. So, it touches on the idea that your client is always not going to be innocent. Exactly, I don't think anyone ever really truly is innocent is such in in crime. There's always kind of like two sides to a story, isn't there? But yeah yeah, I just think you know they have to be kind of they've got to be emotionally quite tough yeah, because they'll be dealing with.
Speaker 1:But that's their role, isn't?
Speaker 2:it exactly that's their role but then I imagine outside of the court very different probably yeah very as much as we're very different at our jobs.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I mean. So I work with somebody who is their role is very, very health and safety orientated. I mean, when it comes to health and safety, he is straight down the line. This guy knows processes, he knows policies, he is so very, very good at his job, right, and he is the most risk averse one of the most risk averse person in a really good way, because he's bloody good at his job right. Played dungeons and dragons with him reckless as hell, you know it was he was. I was shocked at some of the things that he was doing in that game what happens in dnd stays in dnd absolutely shocked and it was like this isn't the person I know at work exactly, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:So it's not just a job it's the job, it's the role that they're doing, it's not not the person, not the person, their entire personality. So I mean, so you could argue that the role itself is a stereotype. I guess yeah, rather than the person within the role potentially yeah so where do stereotypes kind of come from?
Speaker 1:so there's the from a psychological basis and it's us being lazy. I think a lot of it is is where we do, and I've already said at the beginning of the podcast, where we look at someone and we prejudge them, we already fit them into these boxes yeah, because that's easy for us to do exactly we want to see a pattern we've got.
Speaker 1:We've got kind of like a launching pad to communicate with them from. So our brains, we're just being lazy. Essentially it's just a shortcut and it's just those unconscious biases, just kind of kind of bringing, bringing to the uh coming to the forefront, and then we try to validate that by acting in that way as well, don't we self-validate, and then we also have evidence to back up our pre-existing assumptions about that group of people as well. Exactly.
Speaker 2:There is, unfortunately, some truth always behind the stereotype, I think. I think that's really fair to say, but that does not mean that everyone should be tarred with the same brush within that group.
Speaker 1:But it's almost like when I'm trying to imagine an interaction in my head now and you can almost see this go back and forth between people where, say, person one is looking at person two, they stereotype that person two. Person two has gone well, person one has just stereotyped me in their brain. I know they have, so I'm going to act into that stereotype and they're just confirming each other's belief, because then that behavior breeds that behavior, breeds that behavior.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're not actually and now I'm getting fiery because I'm a redhead, exactly, and now you're still that kind of, you're not going past that barrier and the conversation is very kind of and also in a positive people don't want to offend, so they're tiptoeing around certain subjects and don't want to. You can see it, can't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That interaction. You've also got the cultural transmission which is media, and we've already said it about the librarians.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, Media is a huge, plays a huge role, I think, in cultural yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's lazy writing as well. Yeah, yeah, a lot of it just comes down to lazy writing and, and I think sort of some authors and screenwriters maybe as well, they're not. They've not got the emotional intelligence, or some of them might not have the emotional intelligence themselves to see past that stereotype. So, thinking, I'll tell you what I watched last night. I watched cabin in the woods again oh, did you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I sat and watched that and there you go. I mean, I know that is written as a stereotype. You know, you've got the jock, you've got the sexy girl, you've got the final girl and you've got the geek yeah and, uh, the athlete and they're playing to those stereotypes and those those kinds of things. But what I like about cabinet in the wood is because it does kind of turn on its head a little bit yeah, a bit like the breakfast club breakfast club.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, yeah, breakfast club's another example. The classic stereotype tropes everybody in there. But what I like about the step, what I like about the breakfast club, is they all go in as their stereotype but when they come out they all realize they're actually all the same yeah, yeah they're actually all the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they're actually all the same. Yeah, I mean for me as well, like media would depict someone that listens to my type of music as gothic emo. Yeah, I've got tattoos, but my hair's not black like you know, and I haven't got piercings and I haven't got this and I haven't got that. So I think someone looking at me would be like, oh, she might be into hippie music, but would not know that I'm into rock for example so, yeah, I think it plays a huge role.
Speaker 2:We stereotype with how people look and where people live and where people are, and media plays a huge, huge part of that and how we look and how we perceive people online.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and I think a lot of what I say. I think it's just lazy writing. It's just not going past that. But not only just lazy, I suppose it's also what the audience demands.
Speaker 2:People are writing for an audience and the audience can associate with that stereotype already. So I guess, yeah, uh, six of one, half dozen the other isn't it, you know?
Speaker 1:and I suppose also makes good tv. We also get to the point with media as well where you know I do it, I'll put something on telly and I'm playing on my phone or I'm doing something else and it's there as background. But the amount of shows that I like that. But I can walk away, come back 20 minutes later and still know exactly what's going on Exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Whereas some things that you have to sit and you have to watch and listen to absolutely everything. So I think it boils down to entertainment, just the entertainment of the of the subject as well yeah definitely. And then you've also got the well nature nurture debate. Really yeah isn't it so? From from a young age, people learn stereotypes from their parents, their peers, like, yeah, boys are given, you know, almost like from a gender side. Boys are given trucks to play with, girls are given dolls to play with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's imprinted from our parents and peers, as you say, like when we, you know, when you were at school and you were like, oh, you know, they're the cool kids and they belong to that group. They're the popular ones, for example yeah, they're the nerdy ones, they're this, they're that. You example? Yeah, they're the nerdy ones, they're this, they're that. You know, they're the mid groups, they're the nice ones, they're the horrible ones.
Speaker 2:You know, it's very, very similar if you're friends with someone that is horrible, you then think that that person is also horrible. But that won't be the case you know um, and that might be the case that that person isn't actually that horrible you know, it's just we just tarred them all with the same brush.
Speaker 2:I think school, I think school might be one of the worst, I'm gonna say, playgrounds for stereotypes, because a lot of assumptions that we make about the groups of people that are around, because in school we're actually forced to be in a place where groups will naturally form yeah whereas when you're an adult and you come out of that school life, you you're not as forced okay, work, yes, I guess, and it depends on the company size and things like that but you're never really put in a position where the groups are formed in in that sense in anywhere else but school. I think it's because there's a large amount of people, all of the same age group, and then there's differences that separate those groups and you don't really have that elsewhere and I think school probably aids in in that stereotype segregation and the grouping and that clicks and things like that.
Speaker 2:You know, maybe, maybe that's just one of the the cons of school is that there's that sort of I don't know a natural division that happens yeah between groups of people and what they're into I think, yeah, very much so, very, very much so.
Speaker 1:I mean I, when I was at school. I mean, have you ever spoken to anybody now who you went to school with and you realized that your own impression of you was completely wrong compared to what other people thought about you?
Speaker 2:I'm going somewhere with this I've never really thought about it okay.
Speaker 1:So I, a few years ago I'm so I'd say it's quite a number of years ago now I went to Sleaford. Back up to Sleaford and I was talking to some friends and they said to me they said, well, you were always one of the popular ones at school. And I looked at them and was like no, I wasn't. I really wasn't. I'd never deemed my. I always deemed myself as a bit of an outsider, but other people in my year deemed me to be one of the popular ones. Right, that's never how I thought of myself at school. And then, listening to them tell me this story back about you know how I was deemed to be?
Speaker 1:it was, it was insane yeah and it just got me thinking how my impression of me was completely different to how other people saw me. And then I do think about that in just general day-to-day what is people's impression of me compared to what I think of me? Yeah I think I mean we're going down the, we're going down the things of the ego and the id and all of that. Now, yeah, I think I am.
Speaker 2:I am very self-critical and I think I always have been very self-critical and therefore I don't always think that I'm doing a good job when, even though I'm told that I am, and I think for me that is myself way of protecting myself, thinking I'm not good enough and therefore I can't fail you know, whereas I think people think that or people tell me that I do a good job.
Speaker 2:But I don't necessarily believe it and I'm sorry that I've sort of taken that on a bit of a curveball, but I can't, I can't think of how I was at school. I know that I did well at school, so I guess I know I did a good job, if that makes sense, yeah. But I think I think you're right. Like how often this comes up in relationships as well, like you don't often see yourself as pretty or handsome or beautiful, but your partner thinks that the sun shines out your ass, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I think there are definitely some people that do believe they are beautiful and do believe that they're pretty and they love their body and this and that, that do believe they are beautiful and do believe that they're pretty and they love their body and this and that. But I think I think a majority of us probably don't realize how nice we are or how pretty we are, or how, how well-rounded we are or how lovely we can be, or you know, I don't. I I think a lot of people fall into my category of being very self-critical of themselves oh yeah, I mean, I'm very self-critical.
Speaker 1:I I set myself some pretty high standards yeah, yeah, you know too high, you know yeah and so much so that does have a detriment to me yeah, because I know you think you've failed yeah when actually you haven't yeah, yeah, I know, I, I know you didn't do what you thought you could do, I guess I know the standards I set myself are sometimes completely unachievable and sometimes it's nice when you prove yourself wrong.
Speaker 2:I told you so. Yeah, like, for example, with the 10k. I knew that I wasn't going to get a good time in terms of like the people around me, because they're they're you know the much better. They also don't have a chronic illness like myself. But I set myself a challenge because I want to do it under an hour and 20 and I did. I don't know. An hour and 16. I shaved four minutes off what I thought I could do and that was a massive achievement for me. And then I that's made me realize that I don't need to be so hard on myself. You know, in those things and set achievable goals for yourself and then you'll be able to um, you know, you'll have a better self-esteem and self-worth yeah, how do we kind of I mean, I'll tell you how as a society?
Speaker 1:but yeah, I'll ask the question how is a society do you think that we could probably challenge and overcome stereotypes?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I I think what we can do is be more educated, and I don't like, I don't know the educate yourself situation, but sometimes I think I'm. I'm thinking of mental health right now and I'm thinking of when someone says that they have a condition. You can research that condition, but that doesn't necessarily that that person has the same symptoms or fits within that definition of that condition.
Speaker 1:As well, it's going back to everyone's an individual individual uniqueness and yes, pigeonholing people exactly.
Speaker 2:We can make assumptions about people. That's absolutely fine and most of the time I think they're probably correct. You know, when you think about people and you think, oh, I wonder why they reacted in that way, you know, maybe, you know, maybe they've got something, something else going on, and that's my assumption.
Speaker 1:And half the time, I'm right.
Speaker 2:There's something else going on, isn't?
Speaker 1:it, yeah, but it's not because they've got red hair no, it's not because they've got red hair.
Speaker 2:It's because they've got something happening in their life that's made them react exactly yeah as an individual, and as individuals we have lots of things that happen to us and make us react in different ways. Grief, for example, is a massive one. I very recently myself I'm like, oh, grief is really weird. Like one day you'll be absolutely fine, the next you'll be laughing and making dark jokes about, maybe, the death of a loved one, and in the next breath you're crying on the sofa because you just heard a song that they really love you know it's so stupid like it's just you're all over the place and sometimes I I know that I can be fiery because I'm in a lot of pain sometimes then I think oh, I apologize.
Speaker 1:I've poked you so many times where and I don't know when you're about to go. I can see it on your face and, like I do, poke the bear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when it comes to you yeah, but there's, uh, there are some days where I can take it yeah and some days where I'm so defeated with myself that I can't possibly have anyone saying anything else negative. I, I'm just done. I'm just like stop, stop. You stirred the pot the other day. What did I do Between me and mum? You said there was beef there and there was no beef. You just stirred a pot that wasn't even there to be stirred.
Speaker 1:I was bored, you were bored.
Speaker 2:That was horrible.
Speaker 1:I was bored and then you got it. You got it hard I did like to get it from both of you.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah and even Mitchell wouldn't even be on your side. Be a pot stirrer.
Speaker 1:But I think you're right. I think it comes down to education. Just give people the confidence to challenge those stereotypes.
Speaker 2:For sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:Because, again, like we said earlier on, it's about people being, you know, your brain's. I don't want to say people being lazy, but it's your brain's being lazy normatically looking at somebody and putting them into that box, Don't you know?
Speaker 2:just challenge it in your head just because they look a certain way, oh, you have autism. So therefore you won't be able to assess a situation properly. Yeah, there are so many different levels of autism. It's a spectrum. That's kind of what the whole thing is about. You know, and someone that's you know has severe autism. Maybe they're non-verbal, but you've got someone that has very high functioning autism and I don't think you would ever know and I'm not saying that in the sense that I think it should be hidden or I don't think it should be talked about or anything like that and it's not something that you should have to know about a person. When you meet them, it's not like, oh, I'm, I'm so and so and I have autism, or I'm so and so and I have adhd or I.
Speaker 2:But, like you know, there's just being kind to people but also I'm going to say and appreciating that they have things going on in their lives that that equate to, but I think I think as well.
Speaker 1:It comes down to like uh, even even within families where and I know we touched on it earlier on about the age stereotype where it was, like you know, the older person is seen to be more mature and is more worldly wiser. That might be the case in some things, but they can also still learn from their children.
Speaker 2:They can. This is a massive one as well, because we are now in a different world and we talk about this a lot. Even in the 21 years between your childhood and my childhood, so much has changed, technology has come on so much that their experiences sometimes cannot relate to the experiences that young people are having today. Oh, young people are buying houses much later or having families much later than we are. Oh, it's because they're lazy or they can't work. Well, no, it's actually because the economic state of this world, from them buying a house at 19K and we've got the same house that's 290K like how is that fair? You can't judge us on not buying a house there, but I'm now making that stereotype as well. I'm not buying a house there, but I'm now making that stereotype as well, I'm saying that old people are judging us for not being able to afford things.
Speaker 2:That's not all old people.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it's not. But again it's like with things like this, the way that the world is changing, and I mean I'm sure that I mean I've learned things from you. You've told me things and I've I've actually well where, I suppose, what generation are we at? Are we generation alpha now coming through?
Speaker 2:the ranks.
Speaker 1:Guarantee you could learn things from that generation. Oh yeah, 100%, but immediately the stereotype is I'm older, therefore I know more than you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is not the case.
Speaker 1:It's not the case. It's not the case. So when we're talking about education, we're talking about education of society in general, not just that of the younger generation.
Speaker 2:I think we can learn a lot from the older generations. I think the older generations can learn a lot from the younger generations. This is it I think that's just how it is.
Speaker 1:It's about being respectful of it. Respect it is respect.
Speaker 2:I think that's what I was trying to touch on earlier and I couldn't think of the word. It's being respectful of people's unique experiences in life and that's why they are the way they are yeah, exactly and sometimes we have to be I don't I'm going to say the word sensitive to that, but I mean it in the sense that we have to appreciate where someone might be coming from and that opinions will differ, and that's what makes us human and unique and that's what makes us such a beautiful kind of species.
Speaker 2:I guess, if we're gonna go that far, yeah in that, you know we are, we have our unique experiences, and that's what, that's what makes us. We can't just be tarring everyone with the same brush. Oh, they're into this and therefore, oh, they're, you know, they're this and they fall into that category. In this category, it's just yeah, yeah it's about, yeah, it's about challenging those those things it's challenging and, uh, particularly for mental health, and that's just because it's hot on my mind at the moment.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, challenging those stereotypes people with mental health aren't crazy no, exactly and half the time there's nothing actually wrong with them no, I know it's how they're being perceived, how, how you know there is something going on in their life that is, that is unfortunately um aiding to their struggles, and you know we have to be conscious of that and sensitive and supportive exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:I mean other things that we can do is, you know, have, have you know, promoting diversity within workplaces, within schools, things you know that always helps learning about different people's culture exactly learning and appreciating people's culture and, uh, you know, and actually yeah, when I mentioned earlier about the media, you know, actually challenge the media, challenge the stereotypes that are in films and things, and you know even the writers, you know, that's what I'm saying, yeah.
Speaker 2:Zack and Cody started it yeah. I don't know who wrote Zack and.
Speaker 1:Cody, I know it's Disney but then of course we do have some laws which does help with challenging kind of stereotype.
Speaker 2:Equality Act.
Speaker 1:Equality Act, all things like that, I think. Do you know what? So I think we're probably coming up to the end of the episode, but there's one. All the way through this episode, there's been one person who I think is, when it comes to stereotypes, who you could argue as and challenging stereotypes right, you could argue as being at the forefront of this, and that is what's the stereotype of a nerd. Okay, what would you say a nerd would look like and what would they do, and what sort of things are they into.
Speaker 2:Glasses D&D. Okay, glasses D&D Gaming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe books, just generally books Books, yeah, that type of thing Into fantasy, that type of thing yeah sure. What is the opposite of a nerd, would you say as a stereotype.
Speaker 2:A jock.
Speaker 1:A jock athletic. Good looking, yeah muscly yeah you know where I'm going with this? I think so one particular person. Go on, henry cavill henry cavill henry cavill, the most attractive nerd in the world has single-handedly, single-handedly, turned that stereotype on its head. Yeah, good for him. You know the man is into warhammer. He, you know he is the witcher because he played superman. He played, yeah, he played superman. But he also, you know, he read all the witcher books. He's a massive fan of the games. He's into warhammer. He is like.
Speaker 1:You know I've seen him in interviews proper nerding out, yet he's got this image and this persona of being like this hunk yeah, jock type, I mean he's. He's not my cup of tea, but I understand yeah, he's your mum's, by the way, I know yeah I think that's why he's not my cup of tea yeah um, but he's a little old for me.
Speaker 2:But, um, yeah, I don't know how old Henry Cavill is.
Speaker 1:But you know, I think he single-handedly has completely turned the nerd stereotype on its head. And it's almost like cool to be a nerd now, because Henry Cavill's a nerd.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's been cool to be a nerd for a little while.
Speaker 1:Oh it is, yeah, Hasn't it.
Speaker 2:He's 41, actually. He's in between mum and I.
Speaker 1:So there you go, so we could both be in the running.
Speaker 2:I'm kidding, I'm kidding. That was very sorry, yeah but yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1:All the way through this episode I was thinking, yeah, when you're thinking about is your guy crush as well? He's just a nice guy. Yeah, you can see it.
Speaker 2:He's just a lovely guy, jason momoa jason momoa.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, he's another one, yeah, he's like big and burly and you think, oh yeah he's just like yeah just most respectful yeah, kind of I mean you heard the story about game of thrones that did with Emilia Clarke? No, I mean, there's some pretty horrible scenes in that. Well, yes, yeah, between him and Daenerys, but how he treated her outside of those scenes to make her comfortable and he even calls her. It's like, oh, it's my wifey. And you know he comes on and he goes to birthday parties with her still and all sorts, and they're really really good friends. But you know the height difference would just look ridiculous.
Speaker 2:I also think he was on like a I want to say Kelly Clarkson show or someone like that Drew Barrymore show or something, and they brought. So she brought her kids on, right yeah, yeah, and they wanted to meet Aquaman. Yeah, that was kind of the whole thing and he was so respectful because he didn't like want to touch them.
Speaker 2:yeah, he was like is that okay? And then, and then they come up and hugged him and like he put him on his lap and it was really respectful, but he didn't actually initiate contact until the child did, or he looked over and kind of got an okay from mum exactly and that that's also so disrespectful and sweet as well yeah'm sorry, that's nothing to do with stereotypes, but yeah what I saw Same with Keanu Reeves, isn't it yeah?
Speaker 1:Keanu Reeves is just the. He's a nerd. Yeah, he is, and he's just like the loveliest guy. Yeah, I saw an interview with Denzel Washington yesterday and he was on the Graham Norton show and he was talking about these.
Speaker 2:Your show.
Speaker 1:No, yeah my show.
Speaker 2:Talking about these, your show no yeah, very funny.
Speaker 1:Um, you do look like graham, I know, uh, and you act like graham norton. Thank you, hannah, and I've lost my train of thought.
Speaker 1:Now I know I was like yeah, so that was my whole point denzel washington was on the couch and he was talking to, uh, graham norton, and he talked about this when they were filming this film and. But he's doing in someone's backyard and there's this old guy called mr greenlee and you know he was, I think he was in his 70s or 80s and he kept coming out and disturbing the movie because he's asking everyone if they wanted a cup of coffee and and. But the way denzel told the story was like this guy was just the sweetest and at one point denzel washington didn't graham norton started talking and denzel cut him off and immediately went. I I'm so sorry I cut you off there, but the way he, bearing in mind Denzel Washington, is an A-list actor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he was respectful to Graham Norton on his show and it was just. You could see this. I thought.
Speaker 1:I like him as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I like him.
Speaker 2:Well-rounded individual.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so there you go, yeah, so there we go. The stereotypes the stereotypes.
Speaker 1:We've stereotyped the stereotypes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's go for it. Henry cavill, well, if you enjoyed this episode it's a controversial one for us, actually, but if you enjoyed this episode, please, yeah, please, check out our other episodes. They're not as controversial as this, but, yeah, we, we enjoy talking about lots of stuff. Yeah, you should join us. That's so vague. Why did say that? But anyway, have a lovely day.
Speaker 1:I don't know why you said that. No, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Have a lovely day everyone and keep on listening.
Speaker 1:Keep on trucking, keep on trucking Bye-bye. Outro Music.