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Father's Day - Part 1

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Let's take a step back in time to discover the fascinating origins of Father's Day. Did you know that it wasn’t officially recognized until 1972, long after Mother's Day? Learn about Sonora Smart Dodd’s incredible journey to honor fathers everywhere and the unexpected pagan roots linked to sun worship and the summer solstice. We'll also reflect on the seven traditional roles of fathers—protector, provider, teacher, mentor, friend, emotional anchor, and celebrant—through stories from our own lives.

Father's Day isn't just a hallmark of love; it's a retail titan, too! We'll explore how this special day has become the fourth largest card-selling occasion in the US, and share personal anecdotes from Hannah's time working in a card shop. Tune in for a lively discussion on the evolving roles of fatherhood, co-parenting, and the changing gender dynamics in breadwinning. Get ready to laugh, learn, and maybe even rethink what it means to be a dad in today's world.

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Davey:

Hello and welcome to Bonus Dad. Bonus Daughter a special father-daughter podcast with me Hannah and me, davie, where we discuss our differences, similarities, share a few laughs and stories within our ever-changing and complex world, Each week we will discuss a topic from our own point of view and influences throughout the decades.

Hannah:

Or you could choose one by contacting us via email, instagram, facebook or TikTok links in bio. Hello and welcome to another episode of Bonus Dad, bonus Daughter podcast. Today is a very special episode. It is about Father's Day.

Davey:

All about me.

Hannah:

Yes, all about you. There is not a Daughter's Day.

Davey:

No, there isn't.

Hannah:

No, so the only way that I will ever be honoured in this tradition is if I become a mum.

Davey:

I was going to say if you become a father.

Hannah:

Yes, or a father yeah, a father.

Davey:

You could become a father. It's 2024. It is a distinctive possibility.

Hannah:

Yeah, but.

Davey:

But before we do go into Father's Day, oui, oui. We haven't recorded for nearly a month. Now have we A month, A month We've had such a backlog of recordings. We have had a backlog of recordings, but there's also another reason we haven't recorded, so should we do a couple of life updates?

Hannah:

Life update Tangent.

Davey:

Woo Actually we should make that an official feature at the beginning of the show.

Hannah:

Yeah, a jingle.

Davey:

Yeah, You've just yeah, life update.

Hannah:

Yeah, I don't know why, I don't know.

Davey:

So what have you been up to in the last month, Hannah?

Hannah:

I got a new car.

Davey:

You got a new car.

Hannah:

And sold my car.

Davey:

You did. You also changed your name yesterday, didn't you?

Hannah:

I changed my name yesterday yeah oh my gosh.

Hannah:

So I was handing my, my car, back to the dealer uh, not the drug dealer, by the way the uh, the actual car dealer. Basically. I turned up and they were like hannah, and I was like, yes, that's me. Uh, yeah, come sit down here, we'll talk about your, your uh, your green, uh, car and I was thinking my car's blue, but maybe you just misspoke. Oh yeah, and your reg is this. I was like, oh, I need to stop you right there because that's not my reg. Anyway, they had another lady down with my same first name but different last name and just in case, I want to protect her identity.

Hannah:

So, it's very close to my last name as well.

Davey:

I think there's only two letters that are different. Even the cadence of the word is exactly the same.

Hannah:

Yeah, it's the same amount of syllables. It starts with the same letter as well. So, yeah, it's the same amount of syllables. It starts with the same letter as well.

Davey:

So yeah, it's, it was funny, it was very funny, it was funny.

Hannah:

Yeah. So I was sitting there and they were like oh, we must have put the wrong person in system. You know, simple typo, because our names, our first names, are the same and our last names are so similar. And then, lo and behold, I'm chatting to put my car in for a service. So I was just left there without an appointment, even though I had a confirmation for it and everything. And yeah, it was a very, very funny experience.

Davey:

But what got me was the fact that you were dropping the car off in Lowestoft.

Hannah:

Yeah.

Davey:

So I went to pick you up because Mitchell was away for the weekend and all I got was a text it said in a semi-odd turn of events, I wasn't booked in, despite my booking confirmation. They had a Hannah this last name and not my last name and then, literally a minute later, you just put and the other Hannah's now just turned up.

Hannah:

And then I saw you in the car park and you just pissed, pissing yourself in the car, at how funny the whole situation was.

Davey:

Yeah.

Hannah:

Yeah, so yeah, goodbye. Goodbye, two-car family, we're now a single-car family.

Davey:

And I've been away.

Hannah:

Yes, you have Exciting adventures. What have you been up to then?

Davey:

I went to America. Yes, you did For two weeks, not on my own, sharon came with me.

Hannah:

Yeah, yeah, and you looked after lily and archie, so thank you for that. Yeah, along with someone else.

Davey:

Yes, I'm not sure if she listens to this podcast but I think she does, yeah, I think she does, yeah. So thank you, laura as well. Uh, yeah, we went to new jersey to see some family I'd never met before yes and it was awesome yeah, exciting stuff it was. It was really really nice, Really good.

Hannah:

So where did you?

Davey:

go Well. We went to Millville, vineland and also Atlantic City.

Hannah:

Which state.

Davey:

So it's New Jersey, yeah, new Jersey. So we had a little bit of time in Philadelphia as well, which is in Pennsylvania.

Hannah:

Yeah, it's on the border, it's on the border?

Davey:

Yeah, it's on the border, but what I did discover, though? What I did discover and this is going to be quite controversial now is that the house prices in America are so much cheaper than they are here.

Hannah:

Aren't they made differently?

Davey:

They are made differently. So a lot of them aren't brick but and I think it's probably because of the land, you know, because there is so much land out there compared to population, it's just so much cheaper, yeah, so so much land out there compared to population, it's just so much cheaper, yeah, so so much cheaper. And the wages as well. So I Googled, I actually had a little look to see how much I would get paid for doing the same job that I do in England, in America three times as much.

Hannah:

So when are you moving?

Davey:

We're not. No, but it did make me, and I know that it's different over there and you know, I know the tax system is completely different. I'm not 100% sure how it all works. Healthcare, healthcare is also, you know, different and all of that. But it just got me thinking. You know, seeing it with my own eyes, it got me thinking.

Hannah:

Yeah.

Davey:

Yeah, but it was. Yeah, it was. It was absolutely lovely. We did plan to go to New York for a few days, but it never happened. We weren't out there long enough. No, I did run the Rocky Steps, though, in Philadelphia.

Hannah:

Hey, very nice Four times no.

Davey:

I think it was three times, because your mum wanted to get the perfect video.

Hannah:

Oh, I see.

Davey:

So if you actually watch the video, I look a lot sweat heart in the second half of it, when you think, well, hang on, he's only moved up two steps now. It's because that was like the third time of doing it very nice yeah yeah, you had fun we had an amazing time. It was great and we will be going back. We're gonna go back next year nice yeah, we're gonna go back yearly thing? Yeah, I think so I think so can't get enough of them.

Hannah:

Roller coasters. You know I'm absolutely distraught about this.

Davey:

I thought you were going to mention this. I am going to bring this up. Yeah, go on then.

Hannah:

As most of our listeners know, I am avid roller coaster enthusiast fan, whatever you want to call it right. These mother truckers went to America and they went to Six Flags Great Adventure, which has the tallest roller coaster in the world, and fastest.

Davey:

It's tallest roller coaster in the world and fastest it's not the fastest.

Hannah:

Is it not the fastest? Sorry, no, or is it the fastest in america? Uh, it might be the fastest in america, but it's definitely not the fastest in the world. Okay, sorry, but they went on number one.

Davey:

Yes, I know my, I know my shit I know my shit um, so um you're turning into your mother yeah, your mom when it comes to roller coasters.

Hannah:

When it comes to roller coasters, I'm. It comes to roller coasters. I'm sorry, yeah. So yeah, kingda Ka, which is the tallest roller coaster currently in the world. There is another one being built, because I can't remember exactly. I think it's Abu, dhabi, I can't remember exactly where it's being built actually. But yeah, they're basically making a theme park that's going to break every single roller coaster record, so all of the records are based in that park. Oh, what like tallest, fastest, longest, longest, yeah.

Davey:

All of those and they're going to have in this one particular park in Abu Dhabi.

Hannah:

I think that's their plan oh right, okay, that's cool.

Davey:

Very, very rich ownership.

Hannah:

It's cool, but also like it's a long way to go for. Americans and anyone from the. Uk as well to go as an enthusiast. So yeah, we're just going to hold on to the record that we've been on.

Davey:

I wonder how much that will cost.

Hannah:

How much it will cost.

Davey:

How much it will cost. Yeah. What to go or to no, no, no to build, to build, to build.

Hannah:

Crazy numbers yeah. I mean, if you're thinking about the, you know, like you said, the tallest, the fastest will be the most expensive, as in to build in the world um would be my assumption yeah, anyway, sorry you were interjected, so you're talking about kingda car yeah, kingda car and the fact that you went on the tallest current roller coaster and well, actually did you go on it? No, I didn't no, you're an idiot no, I didn't.

Davey:

No, I didn't. We pulled up in the car park uh to six flags and I must admit, from a distance I was looking at it going. It's not that bad, that doesn't look that bad it doesn't look that bad. The tallest roller coaster in the world doesn't look that bad it doesn't look that bad, but as we got closer and closer to the car park, my it doesn't look like that bad actually turned into absolutely not. No way ever am I getting on that thing? No, not happening.

Hannah:

The picture of mum on that ride. She looks great, she's smiling away, she's happy, she don't look frightened at all.

Davey:

No, she was loving it, she was absolutely loving it, so we got to. So we were actually on one of the previous rides and, of course, being English in America, and although a lot of people do think I was or some people did ask if I was Australian and also Canadian, you get this a lot.

Davey:

Yeah, yeah. So my accent was Australian and I know it's the Norfolk twang. It's this Norfolk accent, it's what I've got. I think that's what it is. But we were in this queue and there was this mother and son who were next to us and the mother asked us you know where we were from? Said from England. And then she said my son wants you to say something. And I just went is it bottle of water? And she went yeah, and the son said so I had to say bottle of water on their phone so that he could practice saying it in an English accent. And then that, and barbecue as well, barbecue so.

Davey:

I was teaching them how to say uh, how to speak the English accent. I did want to say hold you hard, you know, and drive you steady, which is obviously a very, very normal thing.

Davey:

But I didn't go down that. I didn't go down that route. Um, but anyway, we got talking to them and they actually came on to the next ride with us and it ended up with me and the mum waiting while your mum and the 10 year old boy went on kingda car together because he wanted to go on it and your mum wanted to go on it, and me and the boy's mum were like absolutely not, no, not happening.

Hannah:

Oh, that was nice. You both had a friend to be with you either on or off the ride.

Davey:

Yeah, exactly. So your mum did get a chance to go on it, but there was no. I couldn't even watch it.

Hannah:

I don't think you would have denied her going on it anyway. Oh no, god. No, just stayed with her and waited for her.

Davey:

Yeah, yeah, I'd have been the bag holder the bag holder. The bag holder but there was this rickety old wooden thing as well that your mom wanted to go, and I was like, no, I don't like the look of that either you're no, yeah, you're crazy yeah, no, yeah. Well, we're going to elton towers next week.

Hannah:

We are, and you're going on everything by the way am I yeah?

Davey:

are you gonna make me yeah okay?

Hannah:

none of them rides are unsafe.

Davey:

Well, yeah, right, okay, okay, as well as well while we were at six flags, there was this couple in front of us and she had her um phone out and she was looking at like the bbc or not bbc news, because it was like america today or something. And I looked at the headline and it said teen decapitated at six flags adventure. Seriously, I'm like this does not bode well.

Hannah:

This does not bode well it's normally human negligence that leads to accidents yeah, I know that, I know that doesn't ride, yeah, but yes, but you're going on everything at alton towers because oh, because you're gonna make me I'm gonna make you you're gonna make me every single thing, okay, yep all you.

Davey:

You're going to make me Every single thing.

Hannah:

Okay, yep, all right, there's nothing in there that you have not done before, I think since we last recorded speaking of roller coasters, because I'm here now I think since we last recorded this podcast, I just wanted you to know that you have actually been on the fastest accelerating coaster in the world I have have I yeah, which one? Because it's stealth. Now there was a slightly faster one yeah but it's now been decommissioned and it's and it's going so stealth currently holds that record have I been on stealth?

Davey:

you've been on stealth, have I? Is that alton towers?

Hannah:

thought park is it? Thought park. It's the one that kind of looks a bit like kingda Car, like you go up over and down.

Davey:

Oh right, okay, I've definitely been on it.

Hannah:

You prefer it to most because it doesn't have the dooga dooga.

Davey:

Yeah, no, I can't be doing that, I can't be doing with the dooga, dooga, dooga, dooga, dooga, dooga, dooga, dooga, dooga, dooga, dooga. To start there, I have my world, sorry. Ah, there, you go there, you go, there you go. Shall we um start the episode? We're like uh well, 12 minutes in, well depends how much I edit with 12 yeah, I was gonna say we haven't even started the episode yet.

Davey:

Uh, we, we did say this might be a two-parter we did we did say this might be, it, might be, it might not, we'll just battle through. Yeah, we'll just battle through we'll do like we always do and just wing it wing it, wing it would you like to talk to us about the origins of father's day? So, yes, so father's day, it's actually not really been an official holiday for that long has it, nope, only since 1972 1972 and mother's day was when 1914 yeah, so fathers were not appreciated until the 70s. No, exactly.

Hannah:

Conveniently when you were born.

Davey:

Yeah, well, not quite, because I was born.

Hannah:

That's your mum's birthday. Yeah, I know, but you were born in the 70s.

Davey:

I was born in the 70s, yes, so I do actually quite like the story for this.

Hannah:

How convenient.

Davey:

What was that look for?

Hannah:

Just how convenient is that? Yeah, carry on.

Davey:

So, According to the wondrous world of Google, because we had a little look, didn't we? And forgive me if I pronounce this name wrong, but Sonara Smart Dodd was the lady's name and she lived in Spokane, Washington.

Hannah:

Yeah, that sounds about right.

Davey:

Yeah.

Hannah:

Hey Sonara.

Davey:

And she is one who's actually been credited for originating father's day what claim?

Hannah:

by the way, I know I would love to be that lady and just be like, yeah, father's day, that's all me, baby, yeah but also, let's give the blokes a go, shall we?

Davey:

yeah you know it's like so you, I've kind of got this on in my head. She's got this kind of like uh, you know, the council of women all over world is going in and she's like it's time to give the guys a go yeah yeah, let's give them some appreciation as well, shall we? Yeah, yeah, but apparently she had the. But this is what's interesting she had the idea in 1909.

Davey:

Yeah, okay, so apparently she had the idea in 1909, while listening to a sermon on mother's day, which was emerging as a holiday yeah so she's here, she's listening to this sermon, and every time someone says the word sermon, I've just got like Christ on the Mount in my head, do you?

Hannah:

know what.

Davey:

I mean Handing out fishes and loaves. It's just that. So then she's thinking okay, we're celebrating all the mothers, maybe we should do something for the dads as well, but then no one acted on it for another 70 years something for the dads as well, yeah, but then no one acted on it for another 70 years.

Hannah:

I wonder if she was still alive when they actually made it a public holiday I don't know because to be in church in 1909 she'd have to have been, let's say, at least 12 to have maybe a thought like that.

Davey:

So that would make her in her 90s in the 70s yeah I wonder if possible I wonder if she ever saw the we didn't really look much more into it other than this, like where did father's day come from? And this name popped up, didn't it? Yeah yeah, maybe we should have done a little bit more research on this would you like to talk about the uh, the pagan?

Davey:

the pagan one. So, yeah, I do find this one interestingly. So. Some pagans suggest that father's day is closely linked to the pagan son worship, because the son is thought to be the father of the universe and the celebration of dad falls closely to the summer solstice ah, of course so that kind of makes sense, doesn't it? Because father's day is well, what that? What is the date this year?

Hannah:

father's day uh, it's this sunday.

Davey:

It's this sunday, yeah, not today, not today so we're looking at, it's a week today, which is the night of the 16th, which is just like a week before the summer solstice yeah so it does make sense. You would think then that mother's day would be close to the winter solstice, because wouldn't mother isn't? They say, father is the sun, mother is the moon oh okay, sorry I've just googled it so sonara, sonara, sonara yeah um.

Hannah:

She actually died in 1978, so she would have known so she would have known, okay, oh I love that yeah, so yeah okay, she was actually born in 1882, so I weren't far off no uh, when I said about um, so she was 18, uh, 18 plus nine. No, actually she was quite a bit older than I said she was, yeah, she lived a long time yeah, good for her yeah, yeah, okay yeah, she was 96 when she died, so that's that's a good age.

Davey:

That is a good age, yeah good for her yeah, absolutely and she got to see it.

Hannah:

That's really. That's made my day excellent the fact that she originated the idea and then saw it become an actual public holiday Incredible.

Davey:

Yeah, so Father's Day from a pagan perspective, which kind of makes sense. That does make sense that it would be close to the summer solstice. Yeah, yeah, I also had a little look to see about the roles of a father and what a father is, kind of what expected of them when it comes to children. Okay, yeah, yeah, and there's seven, apparently seven roles of a father are within a family the protector, the provider, the teacher, the mentor feel like they're the same thing, but okay, okay yeah, well, yeah, kind of well teacher is.

Davey:

I would say teacher is is almost like telling somebody to do something, whereas a mentor is guiding them tomato tomorrow. Yeah, okay, okay, yeah uh, the friend, oh the emotional anchor, yeah, anchor anchor and w in front of that and the celebr and the celebrant.

Hannah:

The person that celebrates your.

Davey:

Celebrates your success, success, okay, so I feel like I'm going to throw myself under the bus a little bit here. Yeah, of those seven roles, score me.

Hannah:

Well, I think protector would be pretty high.

Davey:

Yeah.

Hannah:

Again. Provider. You were the main breadwinner um monetary wise in our family see, that's interesting that you said that the provide, yeah, okay the teacher, you did teach me how to change my tire on my car, but mum taught me how to cook did, I did, I teach you how to change your tire.

Davey:

Yeah, I don't even think I know how to do that, oh yeah maybe that was mum as well no, no any diy stuff was always mom oh god, yeah, don't let me near a hammer and a nail, yeah mentor.

Hannah:

I would say then, if we're, if we're splitting teacher and mentor, I would say maybe you're a better guider, not better. That's wrong. Mom's gonna kill me.

Davey:

But maybe you were a no, no, no no, no, that's steward of as I quite often say to your mom, it's not a competition it's not.

Hannah:

It's not a competition we're quite friendly yeah, we are, we're friendly, yeah I emotional anchor, I would definitely more likely go to you than yeah mom, maybe not for any particular reason, I don't know, I don't know why, uh, and I think I'd equally celebrate my successes with both of you yeah, I think yeah if it was something to do with the podcast, of course, that would be more you, I suppose yeah if it was more like I don't know, like passing an exam or something yeah, it's kind of both of you really, or maybe more mum.

Hannah:

I don't know really a lot of these. I will say, though, the seven roles of being a father is also the same seven roles of being a mother absolutely that's what I was going to say they, they interchange between the two, don't they?

Hannah:

yeah, they really I kind of get emotional anchor, as I they. Generally you think of women as being the most emotional and therefore less of an anchor, potentially because they're also more. This is I'm so stereotypical I'm being like just talking to the stereotypes. This is not obviously all yeah but I'm just saying that as an anchor. I understand why that would be a fatherly role. But I think a mum, maybe, is more likely to be more empathetic, slash sympathetic to the emotions, whereas a dad is slightly more out of the. They're more objective.

Davey:

Yeah. Do you think it would be different as well, though, if you're talking about a son or a daughter?

Hannah:

Absolutely. I was just about to say that as well. Yeah, because I think it kind of interchanges is yeah, I think women go through uh again in the most broader sense. We have a lot of hormonal changes that are a lot different to men.

Hannah:

Our hormonal cycle is 28 days and a man's is 24 hours yeah so a woman is more likely to be understanding of another woman's cycle of exactly yeah I'm not saying that men can't be sympathetic, empathetic to that, but they likewise have not experienced that, and I'm talking about men and women as biological men and women yeah at birth. Um. So I can understand why emotional anchor is stereotypically a man's objectiveness whereas I think a woman is more likely to be sympathetic but may also be more subjective to someone's emotional well-being. I don't know if that's fair to say, but that's that's how I think I'd view that yeah.

Hannah:

But yeah, I mean, some people grow up without a mom, some people grow up without a dad. So I don't think any of these just specifically apply no, they're not.

Davey:

I think again, you know it is subjective and I think it is, and I.

Hannah:

There's a part of me that would argue that a mum is more of a protector. In some ways, you think of a man as protecting the household, but you think of a woman as protecting you at birth like they're the ones that actually are there in your tummy and like yeah, that I don't know yeah, no, not belly. Shut up belly.

Davey:

Yeah, I don't, I don't know, there's a there's different ways of looking at each so actually actually just jump before going to the next bit. It's quite funny about this particular subject matter with this podcast, because this wasn't planned until what? Three days ago you.

Hannah:

You literally messaged me like yeah, we should probably do a father's day podcast episode. I was like yeah, we probably should, considering like bonus.

Davey:

Dad is like yeah it's the basis of our entire podcast if we were to miss out on a father's day podcast, it would be it would be odd, it would be odd it would be odd. And then I started writing stuff down and started looking at um kind of like the plan for the uh for the episode which we've already thrown out the window.

Hannah:

Yeah.

Davey:

Yeah, and I started writing stuff down. It was like three pages long and I just got a text from you saying my God, what have you done?

Hannah:

We can battle through some of this.

Davey:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we could. What I find interestingly is the next bit that I put that I Googled.

Hannah:

What age do girls need their dad the most?

Davey:

yeah, because I looked at this, I thought, right, okay, so we're looking, we're looking at father's day and we're looking at fathers, and I thought, well, let's bring it back to something a little bit more between you and me, yeah, and I put in there what, at what age do girls need their dad the most?

Hannah:

you know, it's like, and this came up okay to remind everyone, you came into my life at six years old at six years old.

Davey:

You married my mom at seven years old. Yeah, no, I didn't marry you. Your mom wasn't seven when I married her no, I was seven.

Hannah:

You were seven. You married my mom.

Davey:

Yes, let's just clear that one out carry on, okay.

Davey:

so, yeah, on the internet it said that there's this guy called will glennon okay, and he was the publisher of canary press and he did a research study on this and he interviewed hundreds of dads for his book that he then called fathering, and he found that early adolescent adolescence is exactly the moment when girls need their dad the most, but, interestingly enough, it's also the moment when the dad will step back, even the good dads. I find that quite interesting. Even the good dads would step back.

Hannah:

Even the good dads who were there when she was little do this.

Davey:

Yeah.

Hannah:

So it's like they need them the most, but that's when they obtain their independence.

Davey:

Yeah.

Hannah:

Quite a nice way of looking at it.

Davey:

Yeah, would you say. That was true. Would you say if you're looking back to your early adolescence?

Hannah:

Yeah, yeah, what we classing as early adolescence, like early teens.

Davey:

I would say early teens yeah. So 12, 13?, 12, 13, yeah, that was the age I stopped picking you up to carry you across the road, because your mum did say to me she's 12.

Hannah:

Yeah, she'll probably not do that anymore. Yeah, it's really hard. Yeah, I think that's really hard for me to answer. I don't know. I think my answer not very excitingly is I don't know if that's.

Davey:

Yeah, okay, yeah.

Hannah:

I think dads should be there.

Davey:

I've always been, which you are.

Hannah:

Yeah, I don't think I've ever stepped back from you no, I think this is quite difficult for me to answer yeah, okay yeah okay, yeah, um.

Davey:

So if we look at going back to father's day, as an actual as an actual holiday and, as a whole, okay, retail yeah, so father's day is quite a significant holiday.

Hannah:

You buy cards, same as Mother's Day In the US. Apparently, the spending of Father's Day in 2021 was estimated around $20.1 billion.

Davey:

That's ridiculous.

Hannah:

On Father's Day.

Davey:

That's ridiculous amount of money they treat their fathers well. Yeah, they do. Maybe I should move to America, yeah.

Hannah:

I couldn't find a uk statistic for that, unfortunately, but um, but, yeah, that's what I found. Um, so, speaking of sales, so that just means retail, as in that could mean cards, gifts, activities, everything but looking at card sales particularly. Again, this is a us stat, but father's day is the fourth largest card selling occasion in the us yeah apparently 72 million cards are exchanged annually in the US on Father's Day.

Davey:

That is a lot.

Hannah:

We kind of discussed this off air. But also Father's Day could mean grandfathers. And obviously stepfathers is another one, so it's quite likely at some point in my life I would have had a Father's Day card for my father and a Father's Day card for you. Yeah, so there's two already for one person.

Davey:

Yeah, that's true, yeah.

Hannah:

And then people that have two dads. There could be people that celebrate it with their grandfather. Yeah, maybe. I know that some people might buy cards for their siblings on behalf of a child or on behalf of a bump on the way. Yeah, yeah, or something like that as well, so you've got other other ways of buying cards um and making cards, I think as well you worked in a card shop, didn't you? I did work.

Davey:

You worked in a card shop for for a couple of years I did. What was it like with father's day, just from your own memory regarding to other say like mother's day, or you know, was it busier, would you say, or would you say it was on par with I?

Hannah:

think. I think mother's day cards were definitely sold more yeah I think a lot of fathers and I know you kind of fall into this category a little bit like I don't really care for the card, I would rather just spend the day with you or something like that rather than the the materialness I'm not saying that mothers are more material. I'm just saying that I think fathers are like more likely, like oh, I don't care for that shit sort of thing, like the commercial side of it which is exactly what I said yesterday.

Hannah:

Exactly, yeah, like fathers are less likely to care about the commercial side. Maybe would be the best way of describing that. Yeah, I think from memory. I think, if you think about a space for amount of cards, so you, around Father's Day, mother's Day, you would move a load of cards over to accommodate for Mother's Day and Father's Day, because they only happen once a year.

Davey:

Yeah.

Hannah:

I'm pretty certain the display was bigger for Mother's Day cards. There was more choice for.

Davey:

Mother's Day cards.

Hannah:

And Father's Day was a smaller section. Could be absolutely wrong, but I seem to recall there wasn't as much space for father's day as there was mother's day, or maybe even variety of cards, potentially I'm not I'm not really sure, because I guess a mother figure can be multiple things as well. A mother figure you could have a work mum or a work.

Hannah:

Like you know, people have their work wife or their work mum or their work, dad or something, yeah I feel like people are more likely to have a work mum, yeah, um, and sometimes, like I know, I know a friend of mine who had a work mum and they thought it'd be really funny to get her mother's day card, yeah, from the work lot because she played that figure in their life, whereas Whereas, I don't know whether you'd get that with a work- dad, I think if you were to do that, they'd be seen more as an uncle. Yes, I agree.

Davey:

If you're looking from a male perspective.

Hannah:

Yeah, I agree.

Davey:

Yeah, be more of an uncle, Because we used to have a guy work with us and he's retired now and he was one of those blokes where anyone you know anyone could go with him and just, I mean, just go and discuss a problem with him. He was like an agony aunt and we called him Uncle Den.

Hannah:

Yeah.

Davey:

That was his name. It was Uncle Den. You know, I'll go and have a chat with Uncle Den.

Hannah:

Does Uncle Den listen to this podcast?

Davey:

He's quite old now is Uncle Den. Well, I'll say that if I've just said that and he does listen to it, he's probably now swearing at the podcast. Yeah, how dare you. Yeah, but yeah, I'd say more like you say yeah, from that sort of thing, from a female perspective you would say like a work mum or whatever, but I think from a male perspective it wouldn't be a dad, it'd be more of an uncle.

Davey:

Yeah, that's yeah, but it's interesting when you say about the card issue. So I did used to get my granddad a Father's Day card, yeah, but also I had four dads.

Hannah:

Yeah, exactly at some point yeah.

Davey:

So there's, yeah, so, but I mean, that was there, you go.

Hannah:

That's five cards. And also, I guess you lived with your granddad as well for quite a while a while, did you not? Uh, kind of, yeah, a little bit yeah, so maybe that's why it was more appropriate. Yeah, yeah, I don't think I ever gave my granddad a father's day card, because there was a. There was someone else to give them that card, so my dad or yeah, yeah, yeah mom gave her dad a card so yeah yeah, what's father's day like being a bonus dad well again.

Davey:

It's like when we had this discussion yesterday yeah and you were talking about, um, what you were going to do. So you said you're going to pop them over and see me in the morning. Yes, because you got. You got other plans in the afternoon to go somewhere, because of course you know you're married. So when you're looking at other families, of course other dads come into it and it is very difficult it is difficult, difficult.

Davey:

Yeah. It's like the whole Christmas thing as well, Exactly Everyone kind of vying for your attention Now. But you know, with me it doesn't really bother me.

Hannah:

Yeah.

Davey:

It really doesn't. If you were to say to me I'll pop over on Saturday or I'll pop over next week or whenever, it really doesn't bother me yeah, I guess we spent this weekend together as well.

Hannah:

We have bother me yeah, I guess we spent this weekend together as well we have.

Davey:

We have spent the whole weekend together. You know, it was nice.

Hannah:

I mean, you kept apologizing to me yesterday because you thought you'd ruined my day, but I had a little bit because, just because of the whole debacle, like I was not expecting to be stuck in low stuff for literally half a day, like we didn't get home until like three did we in the end?

Davey:

no, I was expecting to be home by 11 yeah, yeah, but I didn't pre-warn you. I got to spend the day with you, so that was.

Hannah:

That was great which is great yeah I just wish the circumstances were better exactly.

Davey:

Yeah, I know, I know, but it, yeah, it really doesn't bother me. And again, it's like the whole christmas thing and you know I was saying it's about the christmas thing, everyone's kind of vying for your attention, but also it's the it's the like again, like the valentine's issue. You why say there's one specific day where, yeah, I kind of get it. You know, it's the one day where the child can then say you know, actually I do appreciate you for everything that you do and you know this day is about you, but I don't need a day for that.

Hannah:

Yeah, I was going to say like they should be appreciating you all the time, not just for kids.

Davey:

And you do, and they should be appreciating you all the time, not just for kids. Yeah, and you do, and you do, and you know we have that relationship and I don't need a day for you to come over and kind of go oh, I appreciate everything you do. I want to buy you a present. It doesn't bother me because you know it's that relationship we have all the time.

Hannah:

It's also really hard to buy presents. I think specifically you and and mum falls into this category, because if you want something or need something, you'll just go out and buy it yeah, we'll save up for ourselves, yeah, so I like to buy you something that's either really stupidly gimmicky, yeah, you would never buy yourself exactly, or an experience which may or may not be what I've bought you this father's day yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, it is.

Hannah:

It is hard because you you know you do have to share father's day and you might go and see your father father's day, so it's like, yeah, exactly when it does how do I get to see you? And then, when you start having children as well, it's like well, I'm not going to see my dad today because it's my day.

Davey:

I've got a child now like yeah, it's kind of like that exactly.

Hannah:

Yeah, yeah it's a difficult one yeah, I don't know.

Davey:

My dad's the same, he's not. He's not really too fussed either no you know he's not too fussed, although I can't say too much, because at the moment, because I know that he does sometimes listen to this and, yeah, I'm gonna shut up now before my sister tells me off have you got any memorable father's days stories um?

Davey:

no, not really as such. I mean, last year, uh me, my brother and my sister took my dad out golfing because he right, all of a sudden, since my dad's retired, he suddenly got into golf, I think he was into golf before, but well, not really, he wasn't really kind of, but then he's, he's, he's really kind of, he absolutely loves it. Yeah, he absolutely loves it.

Davey:

It's a good sport, it is so active yeah me, my brother and my sister took him out um last year. I think we took him to the picture because I say golf. We took him to a pitch and putt all right, so it's like child's play.

Hannah:

It's like child's play it's like child's play.

Davey:

Yeah and yeah we were. We were absolutely dog shit at it.

Hannah:

We really were, and I think it's probably getting a little bit annoyed with us well, no, because I feel like that's good, because he won the whole time he needs to win on father's day.

Davey:

So, yeah, yeah, that would be a good one but um, but yeah, other than that, no, it's normally just, you know, again, father, your mum tells me off as well, because often when I get, like dad, a present, because again I don't know what to get him yeah I don't want to and I always like kind of default to a bottle of whiskey because he likes whiskey.

Hannah:

Because he likes whiskey, yeah yeah.

Davey:

So it's just like the default kind of present to it. And your mum has said to me okay, you know, can you be a little bit more creative? And again, but it's like why he likes him. He likes a bottle of whiskey, he's probably gonna like that, you know, just give him that, it's fine, and a card. Here you go, dad, job done, he's fine.

Hannah:

Yeah, he's all right, he's good, he's good as gold, he's good as gold uh, so in terms of fatherhood, from a broader perspective, do you think the role has evolved? What the fatherly role of from. If you think about, say from your time to my time, do you think? Or do you think it's not changed as much as, say, 20 years before you?

Davey:

I think I think it has changed. I mean remember, I came from a very odd upbringing compared to your peers compared to my peers, my upbringing was very kind of, it was different yeah, because you had stepfathers, and not many people.

Davey:

Yeah, it was a. It was a very odd, very odd family dynamic, very odd family dynamics. So I'm not quite sure. Again, to me that's normal, to me that wasn't my normal upbringing, upbringing, but I don't know what normal was out there do you think that having grown up with stepfathers has influenced your role as a stepfather to me? 100, yeah, 100.

Hannah:

My upbringing has definitely the way that I was brought up, has definitely influenced how I parent you yeah 100, yeah, 100 do you think someone in the position that wasn't stepfathered would parent differently to someone that was?

Davey:

I don't know how I would I know, yeah, I know what you're getting at. Um, I don't know.

Hannah:

I think everyone's different yeah, you know, maybe it doesn't actually factor in and maybe it is just down to the individual yeah, I think it is.

Davey:

It is down to me, I mean, I I kind of as, regarding kind of family dynamics, I had my eyes open at a very early age how awful family dynamics can affect a child. So I vowed never to. And even from a very young age I remember saying if I was ever going to have a child I would never put them through anything like that.

Hannah:

Yeah.

Davey:

And I made a conscious effort to be you know because, like I say, you know, when you, when I first met you, you were, you were six years old yeah so I didn't. I didn't see the baby stage, I didn't see the toddler stage. No, I was presented with already this well-formed young lady who, kind of your mum, had already done an amazing job with yeah because you already, you already had like the building blocks of your personality by that point probably yeah all the hard work was done yeah, I was already, I guess, polite and, yeah, cheeky, mischievous, still um, I guess all of those things.

Hannah:

Already you probably had it quite easy, yeah and I just ran with it.

Davey:

Yeah, I just ran with it. I just kind of you know just again, I just I'm hopefully what my plan, I just ran with it. I just kind of you know just again, I just that I'm hopefully. What my plan was was just to support you and everything that you wanted to do, and I would just be there as your you know crutch to uh mentor as your mentor mentor yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, not teacher not teacher now, just you know, and that was, that was, that was the plan, that was my plan anyway.

Davey:

Hopefully it worked. Did it work?

Hannah:

I think so turned out all right yeah you're right, yeah, yeah what do you think the most sort of challenges and rewards of fatherhood in your opinion?

Davey:

just kind of go back a little bit on that one, because that was kind of you said that, me personally. But if you think about outwards with everybody else, yeah, so do we think that? The role of the western yeah, so let's take the western culture, western father so do we think that it actually has transitioned from from that kind of male dominated breadwinner to more of a co-parenting figure?

Hannah:

I think so. I think also because women are more seen in society now compared to maybe your time, maybe before your time. Women can be the main breadwinners, they can still have a successful career and still have children, although it's not 100% there yet we know. And it's not equal yet, but it's getting there, it's getting close. You have more career women, more bread winning women. You have now stay-at-home fathers yeah, shared responsibilities and shared responsibilities, it's not women looks after kids and cooks and cleans and man man brings home the money that's it's not really like that anymore.

Hannah:

There is a shared responsibility. I'm not saying that's across the world and I'm not saying that's the case for every single family, because it depends on a completely different situations and yeah what the father and what the mother, I guess, is capable of, and also how many children I suppose you have as well.

Hannah:

Like there's all these factors and your economic status at the time of having children. Yeah, I think that that is. It plays a huge factor. So there are there are probably too many factors to say it would just be down to the individual, but I do feel there is definitely more of a co-parenting yeah side to parenting now than there ever has been previously. Yeah, I would say.

Davey:

Would you agree? I think so, I think so. I kind of think back and I think again. I know this is kind of a little bit of a bit of a segue, but can you remember when we were talking about that board game and there was the image of the daughter and the mother at the kitchen?

Hannah:

sink. Oh yeah, yeah, the father and the dad playing.

Davey:

Was it Battleship?

Hannah:

No, what was?

Davey:

it.

Hannah:

It was like that or Connect Four or something like that, Something like that yeah, a two-player game. And in the background, you could see the mum and the daughter washing up in the kitchen.

Davey:

Yeah, and I just kind of had that in my head because it was almost like, because I thought it was Battleship. And if it was Battleship again this might be completely wrong, but if it was Battleship, there you go just on that image boys are the ones who are going off to war and the mothers stay home and look after the household. You know, just in that one image there it's very, very stark. And have you ever seen some of the old black and white adverts from like the 50s?

Hannah:

Yeah.

Davey:

Again. So I think a lot of that narrative was pushed by that as well, of the male being the main breadwinner and the woman that's just not the case anymore.

Hannah:

It's not. No, it really has. It has kind of it has kind of really changed. Yeah, it really really has changed. So, as expected, uh, we have uh talked so much about father's day. We're gonna have to split this into two episodes again. So, um, please join us for episode two next week. Outro Music.